Sotomayor backers target firefighter

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by NateR

You're also comparing a system designed to promote entrepreneurism to a system that is essentially modern slavery.

Well..thats what it feels like

but then...perhaps if I was further up the chain I would think differently, you know

I do however work for an essentially American Company its the closest I can get

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Chris F

It does work. I worked fro Wal Mart started at 6.50 back in the day that was above Minimum Wage. I worked hard made myself valuable. My first review I got a 1.25 raise. 2 month later they were wanting to put me in their management training and give me a 8.00 an hour raise at the end of that training. Why? Because of hard word and initiative to learn. People say Wal Mart is greedy. But the fact is they pay well for good workers. My wife works there now and makes more then I do and I manage a restaurant right now. Now I wish I would have took them up on their offer back then.

thats not the policy they implement in England...but then, I dont know how much of the companies ins and outs, in Wal-Mart...and how much of it is simply that Wal-Mart owns ASDA, a company that had existed BEFORE and had protocols already in place.

I think the training side of things might not really be controlled by America. I think that might simply be purely British in design and implementation. Our Chain does have a CEO that isnt based in the United States...and it still keeps its old name (its run by...but not called...Wal-Mart)

There are places that I have worked which are far worse then Wal-Mart. As an Organisation they arent that bad...if only they paid the grunts a little bit more

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Play The Man

I am going to stick up for the brain surgeon. Before he becomes a brain surgeon, he must go through 4 years of university. After university, he must attend four years of medical school. After medical school, he must be accepted into a surgical internship (1 year). After the internship, he must be accepted into a neurosurgery residency, which is 5 years. After the residency, he may or may not subspecialize in a fellowship (1+ years). Admission to each step is incredibly competitive. Each step requires an incredible amount of sacrifice. The total bill for four years of university plus four years of medical school is easily several hundred thousand dollars. He will not have an income during the eight years of university and medical school, unless he also holds down a part-time job. It is highly likely that the neurosurgeon is $250,000 in debt (not counting the interest) before he makes one penny. During his internship and residency, he will work 80 hour weeks (used to be 100+ hours per week until reform was instituted) for years on end. No weekends off. No holidays off. His pay is lousy. His pay per hour worked during the residency would yield an hourly wage less than a teenager working the counter at McDonald's. The pay that you see quoted, will not start until he is in his mid-30's in age, at the earliest. Once he becomes a brain surgeon, he will be sued for malpractice - there was a recent survey of a large group of neurosurgeons and every single one had been sued. No matter how well he does his job, people will die and relatives will file lawsuits. For the rest of his life, he will carry a pager, to be on call at a moment's notice, to get up out of bed in the middle of the night, and evacuate blood from an accident victim's skull. Due to the poor work hours, he will likely be divorced (studies show high rates of divorce) If you still think he is overpaid, then apply for the job, because for some reason there is a shortage of them - I guess not many people like the easy money.

You speak as if you are a Brian Surgeon

Everyone is in Debt from University, from Tuition Fees, from Student Loans...you dont, in this country, start to pay it back till you earn a substantial ammount more then me. I dont count it as debt since I dont qualify to pay it back at present

My point isnt that he may be paid to much...its that Brain Surgeon would starve if there was no shops to sell him food. I bring the food to him. I should get paid more because he relies on me to do that. The reason I dont is because supermarkets take so many people doing the same thing just to keep afloat that, as an individual, I'm just one hand in many doing the same thing...so he relies on my office, not me personally...somehow that means I shouldnt be paid for basically supporting him in that way.

Its a form of Administration....Administration is actually a Spiritual Gift...did you realize that? The ability to support others so they can do what they do is considered a task empowered by spiritual gifts....Being blessed with the tallent to be a brain surgeon...well thats just GOD given tallent...people forget something about The Kingdom of GOD...its upside down. Those at the top are humbled, those at the bottom are lifted up. I think that the gift of administration is mentioned because firstly SO many people are involved in it. I bet more people are in the business of Administration then have the gift of tongues. But its not glorious. All it does is enable the main function to be carried out, by others.

Since when have you heard of the team who tirelessly drive the Octagon around for the UFC, and who probably take a whole day over setting it up to ensure all safety procedures? How often to you here of the ticket collector who stands on the door making sure people know where to sit in a vast auditorium? Who orders the food for the bars? Who sets up the merchandise Stalls??

Without those people, the Event couldnt be staged. When all those people do their job of supporting, it allows Dana White and the Fetittas to get on with doing the main focus of the project. It allows the Fighters not to have to worry or think about, say, where their dressing room is...? Who will call them when its time to go live? Administration is VAST...I think that it accounts for about half of everything that happens.

But Those people wont get paid as much as Dana White now, will they. Thats my point. Its not that people in high office get paid to much. The surgeon probably deserves his Money (certain bankers DO NOT) its more that the general Administration...the people on the ground...they deserve more.

Guess who has to deal with the rude Customer? its not the Director of Wal-Mart. Guess who has to deal with the foul mouthed loud drunken MMA fan after an event, and clear up their mess...It wont be Dana White...

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

You speak as if you are a Brian Surgeon

Technically, it's "Brain Surgeon," but don't worry about it too much, Dave, we can't all be Brain Surgeons. Some of us just have to settle for being Brian Surgeons.

[NateR]

Dave, you pay people based on relevant skills, intelligence required by their job and the amount of education they have that specifically applies to that job.

Nobody has to get a college scholarship to learn how to stock vegetables in a grocery store. You don't even need a high school diploma to do that. Which is why there are so many kids working these kinds of jobs in America and, if all of them got fired today, they would be easily replaced before the end of the week. Hence, the low pay.

That's the difference between skilled and unskilled labor.

I'm surprised that someone like you would be so quick to try to dismiss the value of education in the workplace.

[Play The Man]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

You speak as if you are a Brian Surgeon

"The details of my life are quite inconsequential!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVaz8ZZxoxo

[Play The Man]

Tyburn, I really sympathize with the sentiments that you have expressed in several posts throughout this thread; however, I don't know of a way better than the free market, as cold and unfeeling as it is, to assign value for work. The free market gets it wrong a lot of the time - rap music stars making millions while teachers and soldiers make very modest incomes; however, most other systems are even worse. Utopian communities usually don't last one generation. The past century witnessed the largest body count in history mostly due to the communist theories (and practice) of Marx. Western European socialism likely will not last through this century due to demographic collapse - there will not be enough 20 and 30 year-olds working to support the welfare state and the healthcare and pension costs of the more numerous elderly (unless of course there is even more massive immigration, which will likely destroy the system by other, more sinister, means). I find it ironic that you state that you are a royalist. A strong monarchy has a whole class of people given huge amounts of wealth for no other reason than the circumstances of their birth. At least a meritocracy awards high achievers for their hard work, talent or sacrifice. A monarchy gives you an inbred incompetent like Prince Charles, using up the hard-earned resources of his subjects as he babbles on about how he wants to be his mistress's tampon!

You should study the lesson of the bucolic proverb: "When it comes to ham and eggs for breakfast, the chicken is involved; the pig is committed." Currently you are involved with a job; the committed usually are more highly rewarded. If you want to earn more money you need to risk more and get committed. Start a business - if you succeed then you reap the rewards, if you fail it is all on you. I would bet that your current position offers some element of job security, scheduled breaks, reasonable hours, etc. despite not paying as much as you would like (and probably rightly deserve). If you are truly that disappointed with your position, you should strike out on you own. If you work hard, there is a great chance that you will succeed; however, be warned, the small business owner doesn't get coffee breaks or overtime or weekends off and if the business fails you would not just lose a job, you would lose everything. If you want to stay where you are at, then do something radical: work during break-time, come early to work and stay late (unpaid if necessary), volunteer for extra responsibility, greet every customer with a salutation, etc. It might go unnoticed and unrewarded for a time; however, I would bet that in the long run it would bring rewards. In addition, if you are serious about building wealth, I would recommend a second job. Yes, your life will be difficult, but many, if not most, of the high-earners don't put in a 40 hour work-week (does Europe even work that long?), they put in 50, 60 or 70 hour work-weeks (or more).

Originally Posted by NateR

Dave, you pay people based on relevant skills, intelligence required by their job and the amount of education they have that specifically applies to that job.

Nobody has to get a college scholarship to learn how to stock vegetables in a grocery store. You don't even need a high school diploma to do that. Which is why there are so many kids working these kinds of jobs in America and, if all of them got fired today, they would be easily replaced before the end of the week. Hence, the low pay.

That's the difference between skilled and unskilled labor.

I'm surprised that someone like you would be so quick to try to dismiss the value of education in the workplace.

I wish education helped more then it did. I have a Masters and could only find restaurant management. A friend of mine has a JD and he is delivering Pizza's. So education does not always translate into more money. However I am paid a lot more then most who have no degree but more in work experience so my education has helped some. But it also has hurt me. I have been told 4 time in the last month I am over qualified for entry level collegiate jobs.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by NateR

Technically, it's "Brain Surgeon," but don't worry about it too much, Dave, we can't all be Brain Surgeons. Some of us just have to settle for being Brian Surgeons.

...now you know why I'm not one of them

[Play The Man]

Originally Posted by Chris F

I wish education helped more then it did. I have a Masters and could only find restaurant management. A friend of mine has a JD and he is delivering Pizza's. So education does not always translate into more money. However I am paid a lot more then most who have no degree but more in work experience so my education has helped some. But it also has hurt me. I have been told 4 time in the last month I am over qualified for entry level collegiate jobs.

It must be very frustrating. Don't give up.