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  #11  
Old 06-30-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
Has anyone else noticed that the highest crime rates seem to be in the areas with the strictest gun control laws? I don't think that's a coincidence.
Well, I think it goes more to population than anything.

The more people you put into a small area, the more problems you are going to have. I am all for less strict gun laws, but in big cities, a lot of the laws do make sense. Now, does it mean that the laws actually stop people from carrying guns and committing crimes? No, it doesn't, but it does give us the power to punish those who get caught, which is important.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Well, I think it goes more to population than anything.

The more people you put into a small area, the more problems you are going to have. I am all for less strict gun laws, but in big cities, a lot of the laws do make sense. Now, does it mean that the laws actually stop people from carrying guns and committing crimes? No, it doesn't, but it does give us the power to punish those who get caught, which is important.
I agree that it's important to punish people for criminal activity, I don't think that the correct method is to outlaw guns & slam people who have them. I think you need to be cery particular about how the guns are registered & then also have statutes in place which itemize "bonus points" if it's committed with a gun.
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by VCURamFan
I agree that it's important to punish people for criminal activity, I don't think that the correct method is to outlaw guns & slam people who have them. I think you need to be cery particular about how the guns are registered & then also have statutes in place which itemize "bonus points" if it's committed with a gun.
I don't think the laws were designed too slam people who own guns. Yes, you have the people who take it too far and think we should completely outlaw guns, but I think it's more of the "don't take your guns to town" idea.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2009, 06:22 PM
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IMO gun control laws won't work in a place where it is a right to carry guns ... i think making it a "right" is overboard, making it a privelege and responsibility is the way to go .. LOL ...
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2009, 07:30 PM
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I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Crisco
I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..
+ juan. Also, I think you should hafve to pass a gun-safety, as well. Not a full-blown exam, just some simple stuff like "Should you store your gun loaded", etc.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2009, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Crisco
I think anyone who isn't a felon should have the right to own a gun however I do agree with waiting periods..
I am curious, what is your rationale for a waiting period?
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Play The Man
I am curious, what is your rationale for a waiting period?
To help cut some crimes of passion down.

Guy walks in on his wife doing another guy takes ten minutes, drives to the store and buys a gun and some bullets and puts 3 bullets in both of them.

If he has to wait three days cooler heads might prevail.

I'm not saying he wouldn't just stab the dude or something but I think and have been told by others with experience that pulling a trigger is often easier then plunging a blade into someone.

Point being that rarely does someone buy a gun the same day they are taking it hunting.

To some it might sound silly but I've seen some angry people that if they could have brought guns at that moment would have used them and then they would have regretted it when cooler heads prevail.

A short waiting period does more good then harm I think. It doesn't really trample on anyones rights and might save a few lives.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisco
To help cut some crimes of passion down.

Guy walks in on his wife doing another guy takes ten minutes, drives to the store and buys a gun and some bullets and puts 3 bullets in both of them.

If he has to wait three days cooler heads might prevail.

I'm not saying he wouldn't just stab the dude or something but I think and have been told by others with experience that pulling a trigger is often easier then plunging a blade into someone.

Point being that rarely does someone buy a gun the same day they are taking it hunting.

To some it might sound silly but I've seen some angry people that if they could have brought guns at that moment would have used them and then they would have regretted it when cooler heads prevail.

A short waiting period does more good then harm I think. It doesn't really trample on anyones rights and might save a few lives.
I used to support gun control but my thinking on the issue has changed as I have gotten older and read up on the issue.

I think waiting periods sound reasonable to most people. I had the same discussion with a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist. He supports waiting periods because he is concerned about suicidal people having a gun. I think that is a justifiable concern. Shortly after we had the discussion, I came across a study that addressed the issue. In brief (if I remember all the details correctly), areas with newly instituted waiting periods did experience a decrease in suicide by firearm; however, there was a concomitant increase in suicides by other methods (hanging, pills, carbon monoxide, etc.) so that the overall suicide rate was unchanged. Essentially, the waiting period did put up a roadblock in front of the suicidal person but it didn't stop them from committing suicide, they just took a bottle of Tylenol or sat in a car in a closed garage or strung up a noose from the ceiling. I don't know of a study looking at waiting periods and crimes of passion, but I suspect that (like you mentioned in your post) a homicidal person would use a knife, run the person down with a car or more than likely buy a gun on the street in less than 10 minutes. I recently read about a homicide in our local paper committed by a drug-dealer who had been released from jail less than three hours before he committed the homicide. He was a felon so he couldn't legally obtain a firearm. Instead, within literally minutes, he bought an AK-47 from another criminal on the street and gunned down another drug dealer. I think a truly homicidal person will not be stopped by a waiting period, it is just too easy to buy a gun from a criminal on the street.

I recently purchased a firearm so I know all about waiting periods. Here is the process I had to go through: First, I took a day-long course on gun safety which included range time (I am ok with that, I would have taken it anyway). After I completed the course I was not given a certificate. The gun shop owner had to go to the courthouse and get a signed affidavit. In order to make it inconvenient for the gunowner, they do not allow the gunshop owner to mail you the affidavit; after waiting for the affidavit to be issued, it requires another trip to the gunshop to pick it up in person. After you purchase the gun, you are not allowed to take it home. Instead, you must take the bill of sale with the serial number to the police department. I happened to buy my gun on a Saturday and discovered to my chagrin that the police department office is not open on the weekend (weekday hours are very limited - the office is only open when most people are at work). The following week I had to go during lunch. Surprise! Everyone else has to go at lunchtime so the line was incredibly long (that and the fact that gun sales have exploded since Obama was elected). The parking for the police department is coin meter - one quarter gives you 10 minutes. I had to give up my place in line to avoid a parking ticket. After waiting for almost an hour in line I had to fill out extensive paperwork including signing a release to my personal physician to give up access to my personal, private medical records. I had to pay a fee and be fingerprinted like a common criminal. The fingerprints were sent to the FBI! The waiting period was 14 days. At the end of the 14 days there is a 5 day-window when you must go back to the police department to pick up your paperwork in person. They will not mail it to you. You are not given a reminder call or postcard. If you forget or have conflicts with your schedule tough luck for you. Your paperwork is thrown away and you must start over from the beginning and pay another fee. When you pick up your paperwork at the police department (again with a long line) you are told that you have 48 hours to go back to the gunshop to take possession of your firearm. If you don't (say for instance you have a job, or a family, or a life with duties and responsibilities that make it difficult to make unexpected outings during work hours) then the paperwork is void and you have to start over. Next, is a trip to the gunshop to pick up the gun. I thought I was finished at this point, but like a cruel joke, the gunshop-owner informed me I had 24 hours to return to the police department to have them inspect the gun and record the serial number (which they already have) or I am in violation of the law. Waiting periods may sound reasonable but from personal experience I can tell you that they are onerous (in my case, 5 trips to the gunshop - I bought the gun on a different day than I picked up the affidavit - and 4 trips to the police department - including the Saturday that they were closed). The government purposely makes it difficult and burdensome to go through the process so few people will do it. Can you imagine if they put up these roadblocks to a person picking up a welfare check? Can you imagine if they put up these roadblocks to a person registering to vote. The civil rights lawyers and their ilk would be rioting in the streets. I was lawfully pursuing my 2nd amendment rights and I felt like I was being treated like a criminal or a trained seal going through hoops.

In my case, it was just inconvenience and aggravation. How about the woman being stalked by a crazy ex-boyfriend? She will die with an active restraining order while she is waiting for her gun license. Civil disorder, such as the LA riots or the lawlessness that followed Hurricane Katrina, pops up without warning and with the change in public safety you may want a gun ASAP and not in weeks. The problem is the law-abiding citizen will be out of luck and the gangs and criminals will have an illegal gun in 10 minutes.

Sorry for the rant
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Last edited by Play The Man; 06-30-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2009, 10:19 PM
surveyorshawn
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...makes me glad I live in a small town/rural community where owning a firearm has always been a part of life. I have never taken a course (besides in the military). On the contrary, it was considered a father's (or in my case, a grandfather's) responsibility to teach his children gun safety, how to shoot, etc. It was a rite of passage, kind of like learning to drive & getting your driver's license. I have also never had to wait or fill out any paperwork except for a One or two page document. The only thing that has changed here is that at Walmart the manager has to carry your gun out of the store for you and hand it to you. I am very glad I don't live in a larger urban area!!
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