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  #31  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:19 PM
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1) Still on medication. I have a major physical in two weeks at which point my doctor and I will discuss transitioning off.

2) My experience is that it may take both medication and other forms of help for a complete recovery.

3) I now know that I had a hereditary predisposition toward depression. My mother told me some family history before she passed. That set the stage.

4) A diagnosis of cancer pushed me over the edge. Well I am now considered officially cured from that disease but the memory lingers on.

5) There has been spiritual growth too, but that didn't really begin until I was more stable emotionally. I firmly believe that we were given modern medicine to help some of us move closer to Him. It's worked for me. One of these days I may post my personal testimony. It's been an interesting journey; I would characterize my self now as a charismatic Catholic.

So we have evangelicals, orthodox Anglicans like Tyburn, some like myself, also Calvinists and who knows what else. I believe we can learn from each other.

6) That said, I do believe that a lot of this contemporary self esteem movement is pure and utter you know what. A lot of these education programs are being run by totally unqualified people and have caused more harm than good. I believe the "self esteem" mantra is used so that people can avoid the more difficult search for what the true problem is in many cases.
1) I am only on the drugs 5 days out of every 7, and over holidays I half the dose. I like to think that makes me less...dependant on them...

2) Indeed. For example, now that the drugs leave me alright, I can get to sorting out the issues that caused my anxiety in the first place. Solving that will solve the symptoms, solving them will eliminate the depression over a long course of time. I've come well up on this, learned a lot, and doing very well indeed.

3) My Mother has suffered from depression in her teenage years and infact after my Birth.

4) because depression is chemical, even if its a reaction to something, once the depression mode is the NORMAL Homeostatic base for the brain its self sufficient...you can remove the trigger and the bloody depression continues...hopefully though with time KNOWING that the trigger is gone you can use the drugs to give you back control and reverse the homsostatic norm back to...the real norm

5) I went through spiritual change aswell. When the symptoms first hit I turned to the church for support. It built me back up and with time and freedom to relax for several months I was beating both symptoms and depression.

When the depression returned I was convinced I was going to die. That changes you outlook on life when you think you dont have very long left to live. You become aware of your mortality and if you aint not so strong, that can be crippling also.

When I first got on Medication I decided that as GOD had given me back my life I shouldnt waste it this time...soooo I indulged in some increadible sin ...later I faced quite a hard time, unrelated to the sin, but it was something that crushed my faith in The Church as an establishment...can help thinking it might have been GODs justice...I used a great good for evil, he let a great good then commit evil against me....perhaps now I know how he felt

6) I dont know much about positive self talk and self esteem like that. I do know that whilst Psychology has humanistic branches...as a social science, its far from bollox

I think you are right about searching for the cause. I think the Self Esteem Mantra is the Humanist equivilent of the Christian "I dont lable myself" approach. The first covers up the original problem and with some luck it will become a conditioned response that might overturn the trauma that caused the problem. The second is denial on a grotesque level for me. To attach a lable to yourself brings some clarity to the situation. You cant deny the problem by claiming if you dont call yourself a depressive, you suddenly looooose the depression...its a nice theory, and I believe you might be able to condition yourself in the early stages for it to work...but on the grande scheme of things...people need to learn to be REAL...GOD excepts and loves you for who you are. Dont try hide it, dont deny it...face it, learn from it, and with His Help change it. Dont deny your sin, recognise them for what they are, call them out. Dont bury them with a silly saying, or pretend you dont sin. If you dont first accept the issue, you will never change. This isnt about continuing to live in sin, or with problems, its about getting rid of those problems and sins...not just for a day but forever. Know thyself, and Know most of all the Enemy within thyself...for you cant fight against an Enemy unless you are wellversed in its game. Do you follow??

You cant be successful if you dont understand your enemy. thats the fatal flaw in the post-modern concept of warfare, its true on all levels from macro-to-microcosmic
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Last edited by Tyburn; 03-06-2009 at 05:31 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:47 PM
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No, as I understand it, too much or too little seratonin creates the illness, and then the illness is reinforced, the extra seratonin, or the too little seratonin, or the speed at which the chemical is released or absorbed becomes a permanent shift. Whilst the body is adjusting there is control over it, but that control soon goes as the shift in production becomes the new homeostatic norm.
Well, I didn't know that it could become a permanent shift. I will have to check in to that. See, the way that I understand it, it is like the seratonin in your brain compared to oil in your engine. Things physical or hormonal or emotional (stress) can cause your seratonin level to get out of whack. When you obtain the levels back to normal range then the symptoms should start to aleviate if that was the basis of your symptoms. Well, just like oil in a car if you don't know were your leak is coming from or what is causing then you will just have to keep adding oil. The problem never leaves. Thus, you need to dig for the leak or the cause of the unbalance and work on that. At least, this is the theory that I was taught. And I was taught that it was a theory because there are so many if's, and's, and buts, so many exceptions to the rules. Some people's seratonins levels are unbalanced for long periods of time and they have no symptoms at all. Sometimes they only have insomnia or one or two other symptoms. And some people's seratonin level will change and eliminate symptoms simply by changing their diet (and this isn't dependant on the amount of unbalance either.) While some other people have these symptoms and take the meds with no change at all. The problem is that it isn't an exact (rocket, lol) science. Therefore, I do agree with Fred that their must be more! The meds alone aren't enough in my opinion.

You have to see a counselor once a month here and be reassessed to get your meds. Dave, how often do you have to see a counselor and/or doctor for your meds?
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  #33  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:49 PM
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I didnt want to go see the Doctor. I was registered with a doctor in Harrogate but living in London. She was sorting out a date for my MRI, meanwhile I was only on anti-nausea tablets because I had trouble eating and felt sick and dizzy all the time. When the symptoms came back, I was in a quandary because I wanted to stay with my doctor up north so that I could have my MRI...if I changed Doctors I'd have to re-arrange the whole procedure and i'd go back to the loooooonnnnnnng que waiting for MRI (I mean MONTHS!) The Second Onset was October 1st 2003....I didnt go to the doctors and get put on meds until December 5th....but the worst time was December 10th-January 12th....MY GOD the side effects of Sertraline are NASTY, REALLY NASTY! So bad, I even had a spell of confusion over christmas, and their are days in my memory that are kinda missing in retrospect.
Damn public health services!


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  #34  
Old 03-06-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar
Well, I didn't know that it could become a permanent shift. I will have to check in to that. See, the way that I understand it, it is like the seratonin in your brain compared to oil in your engine. Things physical or hormonal or emotional (stress) can cause your seratonin level to get out of whack. When you obtain the levels back to normal range then the symptoms should start to aleviate if that was the basis of your symptoms. Well, just like oil in a car if you don't know were your leak is coming from or what is causing then you will just have to keep adding oil. The problem never leaves. Thus, you need to dig for the leak or the cause of the unbalance and work on that. At least, this is the theory that I was taught. And I was taught that it was a theory because there are so many if's, and's, and buts, so many exceptions to the rules. Some people's seratonins levels are unbalanced for long periods of time and they have no symptoms at all. Sometimes they only have insomnia or one or two other symptoms. And some people's seratonin level will change and eliminate symptoms simply by changing their diet (and this isn't dependant on the amount of unbalance either.) While some other people have these symptoms and take the meds with no change at all. The problem is that it isn't an exact (rocket, lol) science. Therefore, I do agree with Fred that their must be more! The meds alone aren't enough in my opinion.

You have to see a counselor once a month here and be reassessed to get your meds. Dave, how often do you have to see a counselor and/or doctor for your meds?

Firstly, dont forget in America you can request to be put on Anti-Depressents. In England, the Doctor alone decides what you should have. I never needed to see a counsellor...my Medication is dispatch in about two month cycles...I guess I see the doctor around then...but sometimes I can do a repeat perscription....I dont see the doctor then.

Last time I visited the doctor was November last year when I nearly died coz of that stupid peanut
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:43 PM
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Damn public health services!


Do you know how long it took? The symptoms began around April 8th...it was Mid April the year after by the time I saw the Neurologist and JUNE that year I finally got my MRI....

...I would have already been dead if it was something serious by then
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  #36  
Old 03-07-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar
Well, I didn't know that it could become a permanent shift. I will have to check in to that. See, the way that I understand it, it is like the seratonin in your brain compared to oil in your engine. Things physical or hormonal or emotional (stress) can cause your seratonin level to get out of whack. When you obtain the levels back to normal range then the symptoms should start to aleviate if that was the basis of your symptoms. Well, just like oil in a car if you don't know were your leak is coming from or what is causing then you will just have to keep adding oil. The problem never leaves. Thus, you need to dig for the leak or the cause of the unbalance and work on that. At least, this is the theory that I was taught. And I was taught that it was a theory because there are so many if's, and's, and buts, so many exceptions to the rules. Some people's seratonins levels are unbalanced for long periods of time and they have no symptoms at all. Sometimes they only have insomnia or one or two other symptoms. And some people's seratonin level will change and eliminate symptoms simply by changing their diet (and this isn't dependant on the amount of unbalance either.) While some other people have these symptoms and take the meds with no change at all. The problem is that it isn't an exact (rocket, lol) science. Therefore, I do agree with Fred that their must be more! The meds alone aren't enough in my opinion.

You have to see a counselor once a month here and be reassessed to get your meds. Dave, how often do you have to see a counselor and/or doctor for your meds?
The medical community is not in complete agreement about the permanence of a shift; my doctor says maybe so but we can't be sure yet. There are several books, including the original "Listening to Prozac" which include discussion of this issue.
However, if the chemical balance of the brain has been changed by trauma, why not aid the reversal process through appropriate use of medication?

On the spiritual side, I think a person has to want to get better. We can't engage in a pity party in our grief. For mental illness, as with any other cross we are given to bear, if we ask Him for help we will get it.

As I read about various MMA fighters and how they have faced up to struggles in their own life, I have been inspired. I came to following MMA as a distraction from my grief. I have stayed because it helped me along the path to joy.

I give thanks for Matt, Rich, and all the others who, whether they realized it or not, have given hope.

Peace.
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  #37  
Old 03-09-2009, 09:51 PM
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I like Cubsfan47's post. "On the spiritual side, I think a person has to want to get better." That is a salient point. A person also has to have the faith to get better----the faith that God can and wants to help that person; and the faith that God in Christ will use unlimited means to help that person if he or she is WILLING to be helped. The bottom line is that people either believe that or they don't. The ones who don't will turn to one ineffective treatment after another in a perpetual, downward spiral.

Will a deep analysis of motives, behaviors, feelings, or one's own overall self-assessment help? No, it won't. "The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. Who can know it?" All of the prevailing psychological theories are interesting and intricate; but few of them are testable or falsifiable with any reliability. Therapy for anything other than for modifying a very limited, specific set of habits is not something which can give measurable results.

Psychology is a huge money-maker for those in the industry; but it does little for its "patients".

Copernicus and Galileo showed us that the earth revolves around the sun, and not vice-versa. Unhealthy people need to learn that the individual human being is not, properly, the center of his own existence. That is the lie of modern "self-esteem" and of psychology.
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  #38  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsfan47
Still on medication. I have a major physical in two weeks at which point my doctor and I will discuss transitioning off.

My experience is that it may take both medication and other forms of help for a complete recovery.

I now know that I had a hereditary predisposition toward depression. My mother told me some family history before she passed. That set the stage.

A diagnosis of cancer pushed me over the edge. Well I am now considered officially cured from that disease but the memory lingers on.

There has been spiritual growth too, but that didn't really begin until I was more stable emotionally. I firmly believe that we were given modern medicine to help some of us move closer to Him. It's worked for me. One of these days I may post my personal testimony. It's been an interesting journey; I would characterize my self now as a charismatic Catholic.

So we have evangelicals, orthodox Anglicans like Tyburn, some like myself, also Calvinists and who knows what else. I believe we can learn from each other.

That said, I do believe that a lot of this contemporary self esteem movement is pure and utter you know what. A lot of these education programs are being run by totally unqualified people and have caused more harm than good. I believe the "self esteem" mantra is used so that people can avoid the more difficult search for what the true problem is in many cases.
Well put hon. Many people are blindly ignorant when it comes to mental health. I hope all works out for you and be careful when you transition off the meds ok.. Good luck!! xoxo
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  #39  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred

1) That is a salient point. A person also has to have the faith to get better----the faith that God can and wants to help that person; and the faith that God in Christ will use unlimited means to help that person if he or she is WILLING to be helped.

2) The bottom line is that people either believe that or they don't. The ones who don't will turn to one ineffective treatment after another in a perpetual, downward spiral. Will a deep analysis of motives, behaviors, feelings, or one's own overall self-assessment help? No, it won't. "The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. Who can know it?" All of the prevailing psychological theories are interesting and intricate; but few of them are testable or falsifiable with any reliability.Therapy for anything other than for modifying a very limited, specific set of habits is not something which can give measurable results. Psychology is a huge money-maker for those in the industry; but it does little for its "patients".

3) Copernicus and Galileo showed us that the earth revolves around the sun, and not vice-versa. Unhealthy people need to learn that the individual human being is not, properly, the center of his own existence.

4) That is the lie of modern "self-esteem" and of psychology.
1) may I warn you once again against creating a personal agenda for GOD, he doesnt need you. Christ doesnt heal everyone. Thats just a fact, even Saint Paul had some thorn in his side that many scholars believe was something based on health that GOD refused to take away. GOD does whats in our best interest, that doesnt always mean Heal...the two are only synomous with foolish Pentecostals and extreme evangelicals who believe if you arent healed its your own fault for not praying hard enough or having enough faith. THAT can make someone with mental health WORSE. The Church and many Christians are at times extremely POOR representatives of a Monarch, the American Pentecostal Church of the Last Harvest for example when my illness began, did try and convince me it was because I wasnt really a Christian after all. Who are they that can read a mans heart??

Perhaps its because they are not used to a Monarch. See GOD lays down the ground rules, and you follow. You dont tell GOD what he can and cant do in a situation. You dont make promises on his behalf outside of his direct power. You dont twist his Word to make it your agenda. Its not a democrasy where you have ANY say whatsoever in the preceedings. You may ask, and you may plea, for begging is what it really is...but you cant make him do anything. If he doesnt want to heal someone you have to learn to TRUST him rather then your own notion of knowledge. Learn that if you think I am without Faith, I strongly believe YOU are without Trust.

I have Faith that GOD knows best and will do what is right. I dont need to listen to your surmons on how Psychology is evil and those who take Medication have no faith...which is what under your language this boils down to. I dont need to see men healed to know My GOD, I pity you if you do. GOD is not a lucky charm, and he doesnt need to proove anything to you. He doesnt need to follow your instructions, any more then anyone else here should!

2) You professed to never being a patient...how would you know? I think its worse in the United States because all the "patients" pretend to be Doctors and bloody self perscribe, the TV tells them what they need to ask for. Thats an absolute Crime. Your health system in the United States for dealing with perscriptions is not only a joke, its actually harmful. No wonder you have dependancy issues when anyone can take any pill they like thanks to TV advertising.

But once again...dont brand the rest of the First World with the same brush. Universal Health care doesnt mean universal access to drugs. The US has one policy, we have the other!

3) You must gain self knowledge, its about ballence. Know thyself, but dont get sucked in. you anger me because I have to repeat myself. If Psychology didnt work I'd probably be dead by now. Do you want to go and read back in the thread to find the answer why to that?

4) used properly its effective, used ineffectually its harmful. That doesnt make it an outright lie. GOD can actually use Psychology, he isnt limited to working through people like you!
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  #40  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:30 AM
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I guess I don't understand why anyone would be angry about another person's perspective. I'm not angry about yours. If what another person is doing works for them, then that person should be confident in that. I'll give an example: I get up early in the mornings (5 - 6 am) and run 1 - 3 miles every day. I've had a couple of people say "You're crazy!!" for doing that. They say they would never exercise that early in the morning. Does it make me angry that they disagree with that regimen and would never do it? No. It works for me. To each his own.

I've already admitted that my own direct experience with Psychiatry and Psychology is limited (although I have studied the subject in the past). It would be great if others could admit the same. We all have very limited experience contrasted with all that there is to know in life, so people trying to trump others in the Experience Department is pointless.

I have a lot of experience in being healthy and being around people who are healthy. I have some limited experience with great people who happened to have some challenges with depression, etc., and I can relate what worked for them. Faith worked. Pessimism didn't. Psychiatry (drugs) had some effectiveness. Therapy mostly didn't.

So, in my opinion (and it is just my opinion), psychology is garbage. Another person might say that my morning exercise is garbage (or a waste of time, or whatever). A third person might say that faith in Christ is a waste of time, and I would calmly disagree. There's no cause for anger because of another's perspective.
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