The Problem with Self-Esteem

Originally Posted by Fred

Being a son (small "s") of God through Christ is all the self-esteem I need. Jn. 1:12, Rom. 8:14. What an undeserved honor it is to be a joint-heir with Christ!

As for psychology, it is garbage. The best one can hope for through psychology is to exchange one neurosis or mental crutch for another which society deems less harmful or disruptive. Psychology is a manipulation of one's thoughts and attention in the attempt to focus on positive outcomes. The problem is that when one's entire mind is sinful and "conformed to this world" (Rom 12:2), trying to manipulate the thinking patterns merely leaves a person in a sinful, errant state of being.

The medical industry doesn't even bother with psychology anymore. Psychiatry (hard-core neuroleptic and antidepressant drugs) is the name of the game now. They just want to drug people into a numbed-out state where they are less likely to hurt themselves or others. What a sorry substitute for regeneration!

Ooooook. I agree that your heart is in the right place, and most definietly with your Romans 12:2 verse, and definitely believe that we are sinful creatures from the moment of conceptions, but definitely do not believe that psychology is complete garbage if used in a good manner.

I'm currently a student in a Master's counseling program at a Christian school, and believe that pathological means of dealing with psyc. issues should always be the LAST course of action.

I was drugged heavily in a research hospital after being mis-diagnosed. I'm also a counseling junkie and have been in and out of thearpy my entire life for different issues, none serious, but just the normal growing pains, low self-esteem and being picked on, plus dealing with death. There are all very normal emotions in the human spectrum and some people need more help in dealing with them.

I was misdiagnosed for depression and thrown in a hospital for 2 weeks, it was the worst 2 weeks of my life, one of the scariest times of my life and I almost died. I have a pathological fear of hospitals now and have to work with it every time i go visit someone in a hospital or doctor setting.

People may look at me as crazy for admitting to going to counseling, but if they judge that quickly, then that is there problem. After dealing with what I've had to, I've learned that

1) I stand with the truth
2) I stand behind God in every way possible
3) I've learned to grow a backbone
4) Not everyone is going to like me as a person and that is ok

Hopefully one day way down the road, I will be able to practice as a christian counselor. My hope is that one day, people will not regard counseling as only for 'crazy people' and will look at it as a "helping profession" that it is. Not every counselor believes in drugging people. My last two never wrote one prescription for me. They used other techniques from the Adlerian, Existential, and Gestalt theories to get to the root of my problem, prayed with me, then utilized my coping skills into action so I could learn and grow in Christ instead of with the 'mental crutch' of drugs.

I'm not arguing with you at all, but just honing the fact that psychology isn't as evil as some people think. People are afraid of it because they may just not know.

People fear what they don't know, that's just a fact of life.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Fred

Being a son (small "s") of God through Christ is all the self-esteem I need. Jn. 1:12, Rom. 8:14. What an undeserved honor it is to be a joint-heir with Christ!

As for psychology, it is garbage. The best one can hope for through psychology is to exchange one neurosis or mental crutch for another which society deems less harmful or disruptive. Psychology is a manipulation of one's thoughts and attention in the attempt to focus on positive outcomes. The problem is that when one's entire mind is sinful and "conformed to this world" (Rom 12:2), trying to manipulate the thinking patterns merely leaves a person in a sinful, errant state of being.

The medical industry doesn't even bother with psychology anymore. Psychiatry (hard-core neuroleptic and antidepressant drugs) is the name of the game now. They just want to drug people into a numbed-out state where they are less likely to hurt themselves or others. What a sorry substitute for regeneration!

Some streams are, some streams are not.

Psychology is the study of individuals, Sociology the Study of Individuals in Groups, Anthropology the study of different cultural groups, Philosophy the study of ideals from all those three

together they make up whats known as the social sciences. They arent quite scientific...but they are far from rubbish, if used properly....as for psychiatry...thats not a social science at all...its a Medical Science, psychiatry is about the treatment of individuals through anti-psychotic drugs usually.

Cant say I know much about them...except to say that most anti-depressents are not Anti-Psychotic drugs, neither do you need to see a psychiatrist to be placed on them. I should know, ive been on Sertraline Hydrochloride since December 5th 2003

[Neezar]

And I would say that it works quite nicely most of the time.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Neezar

And I would say that it works quite nicely most of the time.

what social sciences...or my medication

Well, even Isaiah used a lump of figs (medicine) along with prayer in order to heal Hezekiah, so there is a place for medicine in improving bodily ailments (and that would include brain neurochemistry).

But, we all know that regeneration is far more important and beneficial for a person than any medicine or therapy. Unlike the Christian Scientists, we don't have to choose between God and medicine.

Originally Posted by Fred

Being a son (small "s") of God through Christ is all the self-esteem I need. Jn. 1:12, Rom. 8:14. What an undeserved honor it is to be a joint-heir with Christ!

As for psychology, it is garbage. The best one can hope for through psychology is to exchange one neurosis or mental crutch for another which society deems less harmful or disruptive. Psychology is a manipulation of one's thoughts and attention in the attempt to focus on positive outcomes. The problem is that when one's entire mind is sinful and "conformed to this world" (Rom 12:2), trying to manipulate the thinking patterns merely leaves a person in a sinful, errant state of being.

The medical industry doesn't even bother with psychology anymore. Psychiatry (hard-core neuroleptic and antidepressant drugs) is the name of the game now. They just want to drug people into a numbed-out state where they are less likely to hurt themselves or others. What a sorry substitute for regeneration!

As one who got his life back thanks to medication I cannot agree with this statement at all.

Originally Posted by Fred

Psychology is a manipulation of one's thoughts and attention in the attempt to focus on positive outcomes2..

2 questions...

1. What's wrong with that?
2. Isn't that the same as Romans 12:2????

Originally Posted by Chuck

2 questions...

1. What's wrong with that?
2. Isn't that the same as Romans 12:2????

I think the source of psychology is one thing which is wrong. Sigmund Freud, Alfred Adler, Alexander Lowen, and guys like that were atheists. Therefore, their insights into the human mind were guided by intuition, and in some cases, the occult. Both fleshly intuition and the occult are opposed to Biblical truth. The science-based work of B.F. Skinner and Ivan Pavlov is more credible, so there may be a slightly more acceptable role for CBT and behaviorial psychology in a Christian's life; but psychoanalysis, Adlerian psychology, NLP, and things like that are no more than New Age schemes which pull a person away from trusting in Christ.

Psychoanalysis, with its blaming of one's parents/early childhood and obsession with sexual themes, is the worst of it. CBT, while better than analysis, merely trades one set of sinful thought patterns for another. The reliance is still on oneself and one's own understanding.

Rom. 12:2 involves the work of the Holy Spirit in renewing one's mind. The work of the Holy Spirit is not manipulative, nor is it psychology. He (the Holy Spirit) brings a genuine transformation rather than a thought-based shell-game. Just IMO....

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by cubsfan47

As one who got his life back thanks to medication I cannot agree with this statement at all.

are you still on meds, or did you get off them...I'm still on mine

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Fred

I think the source of psychology is one thing which is wrong. Sigmund Freud, Alfred Adler, Alexander Lowen, and guys like that were atheists. Therefore, their insights into the human mind were guided by intuition, and in some cases, the occult. Both fleshly intuition and the occult are opposed to Biblical truth. The science-based work of B.F. Skinner and Ivan Pavlov is more credible, so there may be a slightly more acceptable role for CBT and behaviorial psychology in a Christian's life; but psychoanalysis, Adlerian psychology, NLP, and things like that are no more than New Age schemes which pull a person away from trusting in Christ.

Psychoanalysis, with its blaming of one's parents/early childhood and obsession with sexual themes, is the worst of it. CBT, while better than analysis, merely trades one set of sinful thought patterns for another. The reliance is still on oneself and one's own understanding.

Rom. 12:2 involves the work of the Holy Spirit in renewing one's mind. The work of the Holy Spirit is not manipulative, nor is it psychology. He (the Holy Spirit) brings a genuine transformation rather than a thought-based shell-game. Just IMO....

So you would rather have a souless psychology aimed at nothing more then neurones in the brain, and stimulas and response...you think thats more Christian then Psychoanalysis??

They are both about as bad as each other...what about Cognative Psychology