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  #41  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:14 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Do you ever wonder why the countries directly surrounded by Iran and Iraq and have the most to lose or gain by regime change never step up? The people within Iran who want change are the ones who need to make it happen, and yes, with their blood and even death. Our forefathers did it here and our brave men and women continue to do it over there in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm all for helping those in need, but I don't think we need to commit our already over-extended military to yet another country's internal conflict. We need to start taking care of our own country and our people, our men and women coming back facing terrible life-changing mental and physical ordeals for the rest of their lives.

They said earlier on tv that they are going ahead with swearing in whats-his-name (sorry, that's what I'm calling him or just Am'jad) as the official winner of the election. Hopefully, the people will continue to protest and flood the streets and continue to get video out to the rest of the world as to what's happening so this government can't hide it's corrupt and evil ways.
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:33 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar
Dave, who are you referring to as the West here?
I dont know exactly. I am refering to whats probably a covert opporation between Several Western Powers.

The United States HAS definately used this tactic before in the past. They have supported uprisings, and they have also sponcered assassination attempts particularly if the leaders of the country they have issues with are Communist. The British Government wouldnt say no to taking part in such a stealth opporation either. I dont think we are quite as well trained, so we probably would only take part if it were a joint international mission.


...one thing we can say for sure. It dont involve the French
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie
They said earlier on tv that they are going ahead with swearing in whats-his-name (sorry, that's what I'm calling him or just Am'jad) as the official winner of the election. .
Lets just say thats promoted some Religious Clerics to support the demonstrations...so now you really have a direct challenge within the Islamic State not only on a political level, but on a religious level also.

Direct Military action is out of the question...but a covert opporation would go down a treat
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
I dont know exactly. I am refering to whats probably a covert opporation between Several Western Powers.

The United States HAS definately used this tactic before in the past. They have supported uprisings, and they have also sponcered assassination attempts particularly if the leaders of the country they have issues with are Communist. The British Government wouldnt say no to taking part in such a stealth opporation either. I dont think we are quite as well trained, so we probably would only take part if it were a joint international mission.


...one thing we can say for sure. It dont involve the French
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Originally Posted by Tyburn

The West is foolish if it hasnt seized this as an opportunity to remove such a monsterous regieme....and I think that is alright to do. They are doing nothing but silently aiding an oppressed people who have organized themselves. Its not intervention, or soverignty stealing...its supporting the democratic majority since they dare to stand up for themselves

I thought you were implying that the US should take this opportunity to intervene.

And I was thinking of your stance on our foreign affairs right now. Just having a hard time jiving the two.

Anyway, you know me well, go ahead and play out that debate in your head for me. I am short on time right now. And I'm sure that you can come up with my questions to you relating to being consistent with your advice to the young US.

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  #45  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar
I thought you were implying that the US should take this opportunity to intervene.

And I was thinking of your stance on our foreign affairs right now. Just having a hard time jiving the two.

Anyway, you know me well, go ahead and play out that debate in your head for me. I am short on time right now. And I'm sure that you can come up with my questions to you relating to being consistent with your advice to the young US.

Intervene, Yes...but not by Military means....well...not be open warfare.

I think they should sneak in and topple the government from inside. I think they should go in undercover, arm, and encourage the Demonstrators...I think they should support and quietly try and protect them...then when the time is right, watch the protestors make their coup and be ready to stand behind them when they do to ensure their success.

That doesnt break any United Nations Sanctions...because there is no law governing something that is not supposed to happen period. Technically, there is no direct law saying that friends cant help each other out. The United States would simply be helping the democratic majority. They could go as far as saying they were actually helping the TRUE government of Iran.

But of course...they simply deny all knowledge if things go wrong. No Proof, no exposure.

I'm all for State Sponcered Covert Opporations. Its clean, its effective, there are moral justifications.

Its not IN the law...so its not exactly against the law...and...if the spys get caught...well...pretend it wasnt you
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:14 PM
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I think only Republicans do things like that.


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  #47  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar



I think only Republicans do things like that.




England was once a republic...for Seven short years
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
It didnt stop the Chinese.

I wasnt suggesting she was killed in a political ploy. I was suggesting that within the mass group of anti-governmental protestors are a smaller group of people who are possibly moving for a coup or regieme change. The substantiation for this is because the Government dont seem to be killing randomly, or on a mass scale. They seem to be killing the odd individual here and there.

The West is foolish if it hasnt seized this as an opportunity to remove such a monsterous regieme....and I think that is alright to do. They are doing nothing but silently aiding an oppressed people who have organized themselves. Its not intervention, or soverignty stealing...its supporting the democratic majority since they dare to stand up for themselves.

I hope they are successful, and that they either force a recount that at worst leads to a coillition government, at best, ousts the president...or that they are successful in a coup which would go as far as to see the removal of the Ayatollah himself.
Good point, but that was the Chinese this is Iran.

Also, if it was some random small group who targeted her for one reason or another, that would still be a political ploy. Personally, I just think they shot her because she was in their sights, and probably because she is a woman.

Either way, that video was nuts.
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