Who is "We?"

Originally Posted by NateR

[BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT][/BRAINWASHED LIBERAL RANT]

There's just so much stupidity in your post that I can't even begin to reply. If you really think that Iraq was a useless war, then you are hopelessly brainwashed by the liberal media and there is no hope for you.

Honestly, how can you say Obama's actions are going to get a lot of American's killed ... How many American's were killed under Bush the Elders regime with the first Gulf war? How many people were killed under Clinton's regime? I mean, his "intelligence" knew about plans about the WTC attacks, okay, so it may have been impossible to stop those (i know they happened when Bush the younger was pres) but they knew that there were plans for the enemy to use planes and still security was lax ... and then there were american's that died under Dubya ... but you only seem to be concerned with people that are going to be killed under Barack's presidency .. that is the reason for the rant ...

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Neezar

Fail.






Thank you!

What your Government says about stuff outside of your Jurisdiction is illegal in terms of International Law.

It was illegal for the Germans in World War Two, it is Illegal for your Congress now.

You have, by law, NO Power outside of your own Soverignty...do you not understand? You have NO rights outside of your own land. Your Government ONLY Rules The United States...it has NO authority anywhere else (except you could argue in an embassy or Military Base placed in another country, at that Countries PERMISSION, or after a conflict condemned by the INTERNATIONAL community.

...And you said that America wasnt about superiority. Understand Denise, your Consitution ONLY governs YOU...it does NOT govern the rest of the World. So what Your Constitution says about your Governments abilities outside itself is Irrelevant to the International Community, who only see its Authority WITHIN your boarders.

If you dont like the answer...dont ask the question.

I have a question for you though. Can Congress sign off on a War without the consent of the President? I mean, would that be legal under the Constitution??? Because thats what the artical implies. Congress it says...not President...Congress.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

What your Government says about stuff outside of your Jurisdiction is illegal in terms of International Law.

It was illegal for the Germans in World War Two, it is Illegal for your Congress now.

You have, by law, NO Power outside of your own Soverignty...do you not understand? You have NO rights outside of your own land. Your Government ONLY Rules The United States...it has NO authority anywhere else (except you could argue in an embassy or Military Base placed in another country, at that Countries PERMISSION, or after a conflict condemned by the INTERNATIONAL community.

...And you said that America wasnt about superiority. Understand Denise, your Consitution ONLY governs YOU...it does NOT govern the rest of the World. So what Your Constitution says about your Governments abilities outside itself is Irrelevant to the International Community, who only see its Authority WITHIN your boarders.

If you dont like the answer...dont ask the question.

I have a question for you though. Can Congress sign off on a War without the consent of the President? I mean, would that be legal under the Constitution??? Because thats what the artical implies. Congress it says...not President...Congress.

I asked the question and it got answered. You answered a question plucked from who knows where.

My question was could our president declare war.
Our President can NOT declare war. /End of my question.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Neezar

I asked the question and it got answered. You answered a question plucked from who knows where.

My question was could our president declare war.
Our President can NOT declare war. /End of my question.

Of course he can declaire war.

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President???? Who suggests War?? Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress?? Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress? are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???

[NateR]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

Honestly, how can you say Obama's actions are going to get a lot of American's killed ... How many American's were killed under Bush the Elders regime with the first Gulf war? How many people were killed under Clinton's regime? I mean, his "intelligence" knew about plans about the WTC attacks, okay, so it may have been impossible to stop those (i know they happened when Bush the younger was pres) but they knew that there were plans for the enemy to use planes and still security was lax ... and then there were american's that died under Dubya ... but you only seem to be concerned with people that are going to be killed under Barack's presidency .. that is the reason for the rant ...

First of all, I don't believe Iraq was a useless war. We deposed a brutal dictator, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people and had used WMDs on his enemies in the past. If you look at the time period between when we started that war, when Saddam was killed, and when Iraq held their first free elections, then compare that to the casualty numbers of American soldiers, then it's the most successful war in American history. We lost more soldiers in one day in WW2 and Korea than we have in the entire 6 years we've been in Iraq.

Also, since 9/11, how many terrorist attacks have happened on American soil? Zero? That's right. So I believe that's proof of absolute success on George W. Bush's part. Of course, you liberals have been brainwashed to believe that this has been the darkest period in US history. But those of us still capable of thinking for ourselves see the truth and realize that you are all 100% wrong in your assessment of the previous administration.

Yes, Gitmo is the last little thing that you are clinging to by your fingernails as evidence of Bush's "evil." However, he did nothing that hasn't been done to enemy combatants in every other war in US history. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Confederate soldiers and those were American citizens! So maybe you should learn a little bit about history before buying into the popular liberal propaganda.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Of course he can declaire war.

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President???? Who suggests War?? Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress?? Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress? are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???

You are starting to get it. lol. The President can NOT overrule congress.


Just like with your precious UN stuff. There was the League of Nations years before the UN. And it was our President's idea. He proposed it and got it started. But our gov't, our congress said 'No way!' and we (i.e. The US) didn't join and/or participate. The American people was decidely against it. Then WWII came along and all that went to crap.

[VCURamFan]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Of course he can declaire war.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

What are you saying its up to Congress and NOT the President????

Right.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Who suggests War??

Doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Isnt it the President who puts it to Congress??

Sometimes.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Are you saying the President Cant over rule Congress?

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

are you saying Congress could go to war without the President???

Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by VCURamFan

Wrong.

Right.
Doesn't matter.
Sometimes.
Absolutely.
Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

Exactly, the President cannot declare war without the approval of the Congress. That's why Korea and Vietnam were considered "police actions" since there was no formal declaration of war from Congress in either instance.

The hypocritical thing about the whole Iraq War situation is that most of the Democrat Congressmen/women voted in favor of the war. They're trying to backtrack by saying that Bush lied to them over the reasons of the war, but they really just make themselves look like idiots if they voted to go to war without even attempting to research the facts for themselves.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by VCURamFan

Wrong.

Right.
Doesn't matter.
Sometimes.
Absolutely.
Theoretically, yes.

What you don't seem to understand, Dave, is that America is not England with a few changes. We have a system of Checks & Balances in place so that no particular branch is able to rule over/dominate the others. It is Congress's duty to decide whether or not we go to war. Period. End of sentence. It doesn't matter who's idea it is, who suggests it, or who pushes for it. If Congress says "War", then America's at war. If Congress says "Peace", then America's at peace.

Now, the President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so if Congress says "War", he could theoretically say "No thanks" and not send troops, but that's never happened.

Seriously, before you start getting on your intellectual high-horse & try to tell Americans about what our country is/does/says/etc., perhaps you should read the Constitution. It's painfully clear from the comments you make that either you've never read it or never understood it.

Fascinating...but merely a facet of your own Legality.

Whether Congress or President, neither, or both sign off on a War, ONLY makes it legal INSIDE America. The moment you take action, you are in breech of International Law...as soon as that happens, in the eyes of the World, your war is not justified.

Try to understand Ben, there is more to this world then America, and the International Community has checks and ballences also. Its called Democrasy, and its called a World Opinion....without that in your Favour, it doesnt actually matter to the rest of the world what your Congress, or your President say.

This is what you guys just dont understand. Actually, you are NOT at the top of the food chain, not in anything. If all the International Community banded together, our Joint Military Force would be more then yours. In terms of Population (proportional Representation for the planet) America is not as significant a voice in the world as you would like to believe.

I dont want to be mean...but you dont seem to understand Democrasy, nor do you seem to be at all humble in your dealings with the rest of the world. You believe that you alone have the ultimate power and the ultimate right. That is Pride...that will eventually be your downfall

Getting Congressional approval is only HALF your battle to committing a Just war. As I understand it, in regards to Iraq, both the UK and US broke International Law whilst maintaining their own law of the land within their boarders. THAT doesnt make it Just.

Originally Posted by NateR

First of all, I don't believe Iraq was a useless war. We deposed a brutal dictator, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people and had used WMDs on his enemies in the past. If you look at the time period between when we started that war, when Saddam was killed, and when Iraq held their first free elections, then compare that to the casualty numbers of American soldiers, then it's the most successful war in American history. We lost more soldiers in one day in WW2 and Korea than we have in the entire 6 years we've been in Iraq.

Also, since 9/11, how many terrorist attacks have happened on American soil? Zero? That's right. So I believe that's proof of absolute success on George W. Bush's part. Of course, you liberals have been brainwashed to believe that this has been the darkest period in US history. But those of us still capable of thinking for ourselves see the truth and realize that you are all 100% wrong in your assessment of the previous administration.

Yes, Gitmo is the last little thing that you are clinging to by your fingernails as evidence of Bush's "evil." However, he did nothing that hasn't been done to enemy combatants in every other war in US history. Even Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Confederate soldiers and those were American citizens! So maybe you should learn a little bit about history before buying into the popular liberal propaganda.

i believe there has been no attack on US not because of the Iraq second invasion, but because of the Afghan war ... (although there have been attacks on US embassies since then which is US soil, but i know what you mean) ... like i said, the whole point of my rant was you are talking about US citizens that you "think" are going to die under BO's reign when nothing has happened yet .. give him a chance ..