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  #21  
Old 06-15-2009, 11:51 AM
cubsfan47
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Well, lets be honest here. Fighting as a sport has been going on for centuries. You are using a part of the scripture that could easily be compared to countless other eras in our world's history. More importantly the Lord also says that NOBODY will know when the end will come. So speculating on it has always seemed pointless to me.

I agree that the hype machine can get out of hand, and sometimes some fighters take things to far. However Serra's beef was so transparent it was pretty much made out of plastic wrap. Serra may genuinely not like Matt, but once he realized that the potential for the fight was there, he just kept talking the same stupid crap so that he could stay relevant.

I actually believe that martial arts, and the competition of the sport, contributes more GOOD to kids than the small amount of negativity produced by the hype machine. Could it be cleaned up a bit in that respect? Sure it could. On the whole though, I don't think it is something that is having a widespread negative effect on children. There are little things in every sport that could be cleaned up, but the idea that somehow they are bad for kids is just silly in my opinion.
What he said.

By the way have any of you ever seen a bench clearing brawl at a baseball game? Lot's of violence there.

I think that training children in the martial arts gives them the discipline to control the anger which leads to violence.
The guys I know that are into martial arts are some of the classiest, slowest to anger people I know.
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  #22  
Old 06-15-2009, 01:53 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by cubsfan47
What he said.

By the way have any of you ever seen a bench clearing brawl at a baseball game? Lot's of violence there.

I think that training children in the martial arts gives them the discipline to control the anger which leads to violence.
The guys I know that are into martial arts are some of the classiest, slowest to anger people I know.
Professional or Little League? That really isn't a ?, I'm agreeing with you and reminding everyone what has happened at "children's" games with the so-called "adults"/parents who get so angry they run out on the field and start brawling.

I agree with Nathan in that the violence or potential for violence is already there inside people; MMA isn't "making" people violent. For the fans who want to see blood or get off on just watching someone take a beating, that's just immaturity and in some cases something twisted and evil inside of them. And usually they were born like that or their life circumstances turned and twisted them. The true fan is there for the sport, the competition. IMHO

I really thought the original ? the guy was asking was basically, "How can you be a Christian and also be able to participate (fan or fighter) in MMA?"

Life is a struggle. From birth which is bloody and messy and yes violent in it's own way all the way to death. It is God's punishment of Eve that women suffer these things and His punishment of Adam that man toils and labors. God's wrath has been mighty and great throughout the history of mankind. What has brought His wrath upon our heads but our own human weaknesses.

Which is evil, the man who gets drunk and mean and starts a fight deliberately that ends with another man's death, or two trained, skilled men who enter a cage sober to pit their strength and skills in competition where there are rules of fair play? Who is evil, the crowd encouraging the drunken brawl, or the fans who've come to watch and support their favorite fighter(s) in a competitive bout?

Btw, I think hockey is by far one of the most, if not the most, violent sport played today.

Last edited by Bonnie; 06-15-2009 at 03:00 PM.
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2009, 02:45 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizion
hmmm, for once NateR I may disagree...didn't Jesus say that in the last days the world would be filled with violence, as in the days of Noah?

I know mma and WARfare or self-defence aren't the same, but does mma influence violent tendencies or behaviours? Isn't the octagon itself supposed to glorify violence and bloodshed as once did the Collesium of Rome? The opening scene of UFC shows depicts a gladiator as if to suggest these fighters are the same...fighting to appease the bloodlust of the crowd...

explain.
If I may:

I did a research paper into Violence at Univeristy.

The common view is that rather then promote Violence, Sport based Violence actually acts as a Cathartic Vent. We are fallen, and we all seek violence, whether we recognise it or not. What we seek is the high that comes from the thrill of danger. Now some people do this by participating in dangerous sports and activities. It stops them from being a danger to themselves and others by channeling their frustration, anger and violence down a safe path.

Other do it by watching sport and dangerous activites...others by violent video games, others by being thrill seekers, others by watching horror or gore movies.

So the evidence is that actually in terms of Sport, the UFC is doing everyone a major favour by LOWERING the amount of unsolicitated violence, and spareing the fans need to carry it out by giving it to them safely on a platter.


Now for the other thing you mentioned. People like Specticals. The Octagon is not their to glorify violence, it is there to give speciticals.....specticals of defeat, torture, but also of heart...its a morality tale. Infact a reflection of true life, thats why so many empathise with it.

GOD loves Specticals. Look at the heavens...he created things light years away that we will probably never visit...and they look so beautiful...for that PURE purpose...for no other purpose then because it pleases him. Whenever he appears he brings a Spectical...think of the Cloud that descended around Sinai...think of the Israelites all standing and looking amazed at this...spectical.

I would say that based on the above, your fears are unfounded.
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  #24  
Old 06-15-2009, 02:53 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
If I may:

I did a research paper into Violence at Univeristy.

The common view is that rather then promote Violence, Sport based Violence actually acts as a Cathartic Vent. We are fallen, and we all seek violence, whether we recognise it or not. What we seek is the high that comes from the thrill of danger. Now some people do this by participating in dangerous sports and activities. It stops them from being a danger to themselves and others by channeling their frustration, anger and violence down a safe path.

Other do it by watching sport and dangerous activites...others by violent video games, others by being thrill seekers, others by watching horror or gore movies.

So the evidence is that actually in terms of Sport, the UFC is doing everyone a major favour by LOWERING the amount of unsolicitated violence, and spareing the fans need to carry it out by giving it to them safely on a platter.


Now for the other thing you mentioned. People like Specticals. The Octagon is not their to glorify violence, it is there to give speciticals.....specticals of defeat, torture, but also of heart...its a morality tale. Infact a reflection of true life, thats why so many empathise with it.

GOD loves Specticals. Look at the heavens...he created things light years away that we will probably never visit...and they look so beautiful...for that PURE purpose...for no other purpose then because it pleases him. Whenever he appears he brings a Spectical...think of the Cloud that descended around Sinai...think of the Israelites all standing and looking amazed at this...spectical.

I would say that based on the above, your fears are unfounded.
EXACTLY! That's what I meant in my earlier post, "that if you REALLY look at what motivates both the Christian and the MMA fighter/fan...more in common than not." What motivates the Christian and the fighter? What motivates the MMA fan to watch? Aren't they all struggling, striving to be the best they can while overcoming life's obstacles?
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:23 PM
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Vizion Vizion is offline
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k, I cannot possibly find the time to respond to 5 different posters for fcks sake... where's Nate??
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  #26  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:29 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizion
k, I cannot possibly find the time to respond to 5 different posters for fcks sake... where's Nate??
Damn...we must be good, we got him calling for Nathan!

(not that that's gonna help you Vizion )
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:38 PM
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Vizion Vizion is offline
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Ahahaha - like that matters lest he convinces me!!
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  #28  
Old 06-15-2009, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizion
Ahahaha - like that matters lest he convinces me!!
some people don't care about valid reasoning they just won't change their minds
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  #29  
Old 06-15-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizion
Sorry Nate, didn't know it was buggin' on you.

1. so violence and wrath for sport is holy? God's wrath is holy and was/is seen when its right...ours could be seen that way too, at times of war...but I fail to see how an mma bout is somehow attributable to holy wrath, or war.

2. It's not about fights breaking out at an event, its the desensitation to violence that is concerning...violence breeds out of ignorance too.

3. violence doesn't have to involve taking a life...

Now you said Christianity and mma are compatible.

how ?
It just makes it more difficult since I have to manually reconstruct the post in order to reply to you.

1. Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was refuting your argument that violence and wrath, in and of themselves, are proof of wickedness. I never once claimed that MMA was holy, just that hatred, violence and wrath all have their place in holiness, thus cannot be considered inherently evil.

2. That is a problem, but MMA is just a tiny part of that desensitization. Have you played video games or watched television lately?

3. I just think it's funny how you think you can determine what is a violent sport and what isn't, even though one of your examples of a "non-violent" sport involves killing.

Anyways, I don't feel that I know enough about MMA to argue this any further. I've never been in a fight in my life and I've never thrown a punch in my life. However, I feel no conflict of faith when watching MMA. From talking to Matt, I know that he's prayed a lot about this and has so far felt no inclination that makes him believe that what he is doing is wrong.

Clearly, you are having a crisis of conscience about MMA, so I don't want to say anything that might become a stumbling block to your faith. Except to suggest that if you are feeling so conflicted about this sport, then maybe it's time to find another hobby.
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  #30  
Old 06-15-2009, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizion
Ahahaha - like that matters lest he convinces me!!
It's not my job to convince you of anything. This is a matter of conscience, not dogma.
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