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  #11  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:28 PM
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aren't helmets the seatbelt version for motorcycles?
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
you should be wearing a helmet one ANY BIKE...just like you should be wearing a safety belt in any car

Your free to do whatever you want on a train, or a bus mindue

Thats not the point Dave. The point is that the law is bogus. The fact that there are no seatbelts on buses and trains only further proves that point.

Wearing a helmet on a bike is different, because an accident on a bike can only result in one thing, and that is hitting the ground. Helmets don't really present any sort of an added danger (that I can think of) to the person wearing it. Seat-belts on the other hand have been known to make things worse sometimes.

It's a double-edged sword, and the bottom line is that when we are talking about a decision that only has an effect on the safety of the person making it, government should not be able to come in and make that decision for us. Especially when so many bigger atrocities are being committed.
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Thats not the point Dave. The point is that the law is bogus. The fact that there are no seatbelts on buses and trains only further proves that point.

Wearing a helmet on a bike is different, because an accident on a bike can only result in one thing, and that is hitting the ground. Helmets don't really present any sort of an added danger (that I can think of) to the person wearing it. Seat-belts on the other hand have been known to make things worse sometimes.

It's a double-edged sword, and the bottom line is that when we are talking about a decision that only has an effect on the safety of the person making it, government should not be able to come in and make that decision for us. Especially when so many bigger atrocities are being committed.
Pick your fights JB. Thats what i'd say. There are things your Government do that are far more worthy of your criticism and attention then doing a saftey belt.

Perhaps you would prefer they change the law to say that no medical attention should be given to any person within a car, not wearing one. Just wait til you get cut up and end up in an accident that wasnt your fault on that one. THAT would be a crime of law from your government.

The truth is...its just not worth complaining about. If you do so loudly enough and they listen to you...they'll only stick up more speed traps to gain the same income...either way...they'll get what they want....and IMHO...this shouldnt even be a bother to most people who would probably always buckle up anyway.

The simple fact is, Americans just dont like to be told what to do by any authority, and on some cases, they have a point...on others...such as a miniscule point like a safety belt...its just plain...sad...to be concerned by it.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2009, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
Pick your fights JB. Thats what i'd say. There are things your Government do that are far more worthy of your criticism and attention then doing a saftey belt.

Perhaps you would prefer they change the law to say that no medical attention should be given to any person within a car, not wearing one. Just wait til you get cut up and end up in an accident that wasnt your fault on that one. THAT would be a crime of law from your government.

The truth is...its just not worth complaining about. If you do so loudly enough and they listen to you...they'll only stick up more speed traps to gain the same income...either way...they'll get what they want....and IMHO...this shouldnt even be a bother to most people who would probably always buckle up anyway.

The simple fact is, Americans just dont like to be told what to do by any authority, and on some cases, they have a point...on others...such as a miniscule point like a safety belt...its just plain...sad...to be concerned by it.
You are right Dave, Americans like to have freedoms. Americans who have their head screwed on straight don't like the government creating bull-crap laws that are designed to soak the people out of more money.

I said nothing about not giving medical attention to people, that is ridiculous. You are completely missing the bigger point. You say it's not worth complaining about, and that's your opinion, but it's a matter of principle. Is it the biggest issue in our nation? No, but I do think it is an issue.

Your argument is not really an argument at all, it's just pretty much, "oh, well they are gonna do it anyway". I don't buy into that mindset. Like I said, it's not like it's the most pressing issue, I just keep seeing the ads more and more, so I figured I would spark a conversation. I could have started ANOTHER thread about what Obama screwed up this week, but I figured this was a little outside the box.

What IS sad, is thinking that people don't even care if the government does step in and start making decisions for us.

Last edited by J.B.; 05-18-2009 at 01:06 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2009, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
You are right Dave, Americans like to have freedoms. Americans who have their head screwed on straight don't like the government creating bull-crap laws that are designed to soak the people out of more money.

I said nothing about not giving medical attention to people, that is ridiculous. You are completely missing the bigger point. You say it's not worth complaining about, and that's your opinion, but it's matter of principle. Is it the biggest issue in our nation? No, but I do think it is an issue.

Your argument is not really an argument at all, it's just pretty much, "oh, well they are gonna do it anyway". I don't buy into that mindset. Like I said, it's not like it's the most pressing issue, I just keep seeing the ads more and more, so I figured I would spark a conversation. I could have started ANOTHER thread about what Obama screwed up this week, but I figured this was a little outside the box.

What IS sad, is thinking that people don't even care if the government does step in and start making decisions for us.
So...you dont think people should wear Saftey belts. I would be embarissed if my government had to force the wearing of saftey belts.

Do you feel the same way about all health and safety laws Do you believe you should go running into weahouses without Hi-Vis Vests?? Would you seriously fight a rule that forced you to do that???
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
So...you dont think people should wear Saftey belts. I would be embarissed if my government had to force the wearing of saftey belts.

Do you feel the same way about all health and safety laws Do you believe you should go running into weahouses without Hi-Vis Vests?? Would you seriously fight a rule that forced you to do that???
Dave, obviously you have not read the thread. I NEVER said people should NOT wear a safety belt. I just said it should be a personal choice. You are comparing apples and oranges for the sake of arguing, and on top it, completely missing the point. Oh, and didn't you say that it's against the law in England? So they are forcing you, I guess you're embarrassed, lol

I don't agree with the government lying to us about WHY they have such a law. If the law is there to "save lives", then why do they hand out fines? Why not suspend people's drivers license? The answer is because they only want the MONEY.

This is not about other health and safety laws, so quit changing the subject. This is about seat-belts. What the heck do warehouses and high visibility vests have to with anything? If you work in a warehouse, and your employer requires you to wear that, then you will wear it or not have a job, that is plain and simple. When I am driving the vehicle that is MY PROPERTY that is completely different. Not wearing a seat-belt in your car should be left up to you to decide. Now, when it comes to children, that is a different story, I think that young/small children should be properly belted in at all times.

Some people do NOT feel safe in seat-belts, and there are known dangers to them, that is a fact. You can argue that they are safer wearing one, but the bottom line is it is still a decision that effects NOBODY else's safety but THEIRS in the end. Having the cops just pull you over for not wearing a seat-belt is ridiculous, and if they were actually serious about it, they would impose REAL penalties, and not just monetary ones.

We have enough money problems in this country right now, we don't need to be handing more money back to the G for some ridiculous crap like not wearing a seat belt.

Last edited by J.B.; 05-18-2009 at 01:08 AM.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2009, 02:15 PM
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I believe everyone should wear a seatbelt, but I don't believe it's the government's job to legislate it.

I've heard stories about people who died in accidents even though they had seatbelts on, and I've heard the stories about people who would have died if they had been wearing a seatbelt instead of being thrown clear. That being said, in all my years as a paramedic, I never once had to cut a seatbelt off to remove a body from a vehicle, but I've lost count of the number of times I've found dead bodies under cars, on their hoods, 100 feet from their cars, run over by passing traffic after they were thrown from their cars, etc...

I feel the same way about helmet laws. I think you would have to be crazy to get on a motorcycle without a helmet, but I don't think the government should legislate it.

I didn't always think helmets were necessary. Then I went over the handlebars of my motorcycle at 70 mph without a helmet. I basically walked away from the crash (thank you God!) but my injuries (fractured skull, fractured orbital bone, broken nose) would have been a lot more minor if I had been wearing a helmet.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2009, 04:53 PM
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I believe it should be up to the individual to decide. I also agree that it is simply about revenue. On a side note this is one reason I object to socialized healthcare ( one of many reasons), because the government will identify habits or activities that they deem "unhealthy or dangerous" and legislate it out of existance so that the government does not have to pay for it. This is happening with smoking right now except it is done by taxation. The justifications I always here are "why should we have to pay to take care of someone when they are old because they chose to smoke?" I agree that smoking is nasty and unhealthy but why does the government get to decide how much it should cost a person?
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2009, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I agree that smoking is nasty and unhealthy but why does the government get to decide how much it should cost a person?
Because at the end of the day...isnt that their job?

At the end of the day, they have to manage the country as a whole. They cant do that without intelligence (the gathering of which you believe invades your privacy) and without making rules (but you dont like being told what to do) so that they can rule (even though you claim its the citizens that rule, we all know that aside from voting, the citizenry is a fickle mass and nothing would ever get done if they all had a say in the runnings of everything that Government does) in order to allow you to be protected (again, you dont believe the Government should do this...and yet, you do expect them to help you in a natural disastor, and you do expect them to run emergency services, Armed forces, Law enforcement...and to stop great acts of terrorism)

A better question is...what do you think your government is there for? What is its purpose? to lead? To help? To enforce? to arbitrate? to do nothing? What do you expect from your government. Is it possible for them to do their job without in some way impinging on you?

Out Cultures are fundementally different...and if you ask a Brit those Questions and an American those questions, you get VERY different replies.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Because at the end of the day...isnt that their job?

At the end of the day, they have to manage the country as a whole. They cant do that without intelligence (the gathering of which you believe invades your privacy) and without making rules (but you dont like being told what to do) so that they can rule (even though you claim its the citizens that rule, we all know that aside from voting, the citizenry is a fickle mass and nothing would ever get done if they all had a say in the runnings of everything that Government does) in order to allow you to be protected (again, you dont believe the Government should do this...and yet, you do expect them to help you in a natural disastor, and you do expect them to run emergency services, Armed forces, Law enforcement...and to stop great acts of terrorism)

A better question is...what do you think your government is there for? What is its purpose? to lead? To help? To enforce? to arbitrate? to do nothing? What do you expect from your government. Is it possible for them to do their job without in some way impinging on you?

Out Cultures are fundementally different...and if you ask a Brit those Questions and an American those questions, you get VERY different replies.
Government is just a neccesery evil to an American. We have it because we know it needs to exist but we will fight like hell to keep it out of everything we can.

Our cultures are very different that is why you get different asnwers.

As an American I bow to no one but God. We have no king or queen and we have no need of big brother cameras on every street corner.

Our government has very few jobs that they need to do and even those they screw up on the regular. So we like to keep them out of as many things as possible.
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