Death Penalty

Originally Posted by atomdanger

Interesting link.

But does it take into consideration the murder rates in states that have it as opposed to states who don't?

That's what the link shows.

Maybe some states who don't have a smaller murder rate and don't need it as much as states who do and have higher murder rates.
To me, a state having more murders show MORE need for the death penalty.

And honestly, I don't care if it is a deterrent or not,
if you kill people, cops, children, etc... and get convicted of murder 1 and get the death penalty,
well then you certainly don't deserve to live off the state forever.
Do you?

If you don't care if it is a deterrent, which the link I offered shows it's not, is it just about revenge then?

Originally Posted by Buzzard

If you don't care if it is a deterrent, which the link I offered shows it's not, is it just about revenge then?

No, its about a few things (for me, I can't speak for everybody).
For me, its about money.
It costs (depending on state, and security level) over 100 dollars to house an inmate, each day.
Taxpayers, are shelling out (at 100 per day) over 36K a year to house an inmate. In most places, a maximum security inmate is more like 150 - 200.
But even a medium (not somebody who was up for death) is around 100.
So you do the math on tax payers dollars.
On a state level that can seriously ad up.
Not to even get into medical costs when inmates get cancer,
or aids, or any other serious ailment that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat.

Oh, please don't argue that the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison because of appeals,
that has to do with court, and not the act of the death penalty.

Closure for victims family's / justice.
If you're choosing to kill civil servants, children, or viciously kill other human beings to be considered for death,
then what have you offered society for one?
and for two, the victims no longer get to live, why should you?
(at our cost, no less)

Respecting the value of human life: "It is by exacting the highest penalty for the taking of human life that we affirm the highest value of human life." (Edward Koch)

Public safety: Once a convicted murderer is executed, there is no chance that he will break out of jail and kill or injure someone.


Anyway, just to name a few.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

If you don't care if it is a deterrent, which the link I offered shows it's not, is it just about revenge then?

It's about the punishment fitting the crime.

That link you posted doesn't prove anything anyway. Comparing neighboring states like Illinois and Wisconsin is pointless when you have a major city like Chicago in your state. Or comparing Iowa and Missouri, did they forget about St. Louis? Yeah, it's real dangerous in Des Moines...

Originally Posted by atomdanger

No, its about a few things (for me, I can't speak for everybody).
For me, its about money.
It costs (depending on state, and security level) over 100 dollars to house an inmate, each day.
Taxpayers, are shelling out (at 100 per day) over 36K a year to house an inmate. In most places, a maximum security inmate is more like 150 - 200.
But even a medium (not somebody who was up for death) is around 100.
So you do the math on tax payers dollars.
On a state level that can seriously ad up.
Not to even get into medical costs when inmates get cancer,
or aids, or any other serious ailment that costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat.

Oh, please don't argue that the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison because of appeals,
that has to do with court, and not the act of the death penalty.

Closure for victims family's / justice.
If you're choosing to kill civil servants, children, or viciously kill other human beings to be considered for death,
then what have you offered society for one?
and for two, the victims no longer get to live, why should you?
(at our cost, no less)

Respecting the value of human life: "It is by exacting the highest penalty for the taking of human life that we affirm the highest value of human life." (Edward Koch)

Public safety: Once a convicted murderer is executed, there is no chance that he will break out of jail and kill or injure someone.


Anyway, just to name a few.

I read a book a few months ago called The Innocent Man by John Grisham. http://www.jgrisham.com/the-innocent-man/

It is a true story about a man name Ron Williamson who was wrongly convicted and sentenced to death. His story is also told on the website The Innocence Project.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

While there are times in which I feel that I could personally kill someone for deeds done, I know that my thoughts at that moment are irrational. I see the death penalty not as punishment, but revenge. The fact that our system of finding guilt or innocence isn't 100% perfect leads me to rather err on the side of letting an innocent live and hopefully prove his innocence rather than killing him and having his innocence revealed after his death, where it doesn't do him a bit of good.

[VCURamFan]

Buzzard, you're making a slight error in your thinking. The link you posted doesn't prove that the death is a deterrent, but it also doesn't disprove that it's a deterrent.

There's been a ton of studies done recently trying to figure this out one way or another & the best the researchers can come up with is "I dunno, we can't tell".

Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake

It's about the punishment fitting the crime.

That link you posted doesn't prove anything anyway. Comparing neighboring states like Illinois and Wisconsin is pointless when you have a major city like Chicago in your state. Or comparing Iowa and Missouri, did they forget about St. Louis? Yeah, it's real dangerous in Des Moines...

Show me something better than what I posted that shows that the death penalty is a deterrent. So many argue that the death penalty is a deterrent, but can't show anything to back it up. If so, how come so many states that have it still have the level of crime that they do? Sure doesn't seem like it deterred that many.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I read a book a few months ago called The Innocent Man by John Grisham. http://www.jgrisham.com/the-innocent-man/

It is a true story about a man name Ron Williamson who was wrongly convicted and sentenced to death. His story is also told on the website The Innocence Project.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

While there are times in which I feel that I could personally kill someone for deeds done, I know that my thoughts at that moment are irrational. I see the death penalty not as punishment, but revenge. The fact that our system of finding guilt or innocence isn't 100% perfect leads me to rather err on the side of letting an innocent live and hopefully prove his innocence rather than killing him and having his innocence revealed after his death, where it doesn't do him a bit of good.

I believe if there is DNA evidence that proves without a doubt scientifically that the person commited murder or a heinous crime on a fellow human being then they outta be punished. Until you are a victim or have grieved over a person who was a victim I don't think you would fully understand. Recently that little girl Sandra Cantu was murdered and sexually assaulted by a monster named Melissa Huckaby do you think that lady deserves to breathe still?

Originally Posted by VCURamFan

Buzzard, you're making a slight error in your thinking. The link you posted doesn't prove that the death is a deterrent, but it also doesn't disprove that it's a deterrent.

There's been a ton of studies done recently trying to figure this out one way or another & the best the researchers can come up with is "I dunno, we can't tell".

I know that my link doesn't prove nor disprove it as being a deterrent, though it does offer evidence to show that states without the DP have lower homicide rates than those with the DP. I offered it up to show that those states with the death penalty don't seem to deter criminals from crime as compared to states without the death penalty. Crimes occurs in all states, but the rates are lower in non-DP states.

Quoted from my link.

States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates - A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty.

Originally Posted by Miss Foxy

I believe if there is DNA evidence that proves without a doubt scientifically that the person commited murder or a heinous crime on a fellow human being then they outta be punished. Until you are a victim or have grieved over a person who was a victim I don't think you would fully understand. Recently that little girl Sandra Cantu was murdered and sexually assaulted by a monster named Melissa Huckaby do you think that lady deserves to breathe still?

First off, what makes you think I have never grieved for or been a victim of a violent crime? I had a co-worker who was murdered and she left behind a young child? I think the punishment for her killer of life in prison is much worse than the punishment of death. Death is too easy, life in prison in punishment. How is life in jail not a punishment? Even DNA evidence can wrongfully convict an innocent. Nothing is 100%. Put yourself in the shoes of a wrongfully convicted person about to die because of the DP. How about putting someone from your family in those shoes.

I think she deserves to breathe prison air. Dank, musty, moldy, sweaty, fart smelling prison air. I think she deserves to think of how she will never get freedom again and maybe by chance come to see how wrong she was and use the rest of her life to possibly accomplish something good in life. I don't believe that I nor you should have the power to take another human beings life. Some will say it's not a person doing the execution but the state. I don't buy that, the state is run by people, often times people who are guilty of other crimes of which they have never been caught.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

First off, what makes you think I have never grieved for or been a victim of a violent crime? I had a co-worker who was murdered and she left behind a young child? I think the punishment for her killer of life in prison is much worse than the punishment of death. Death is too easy, life in prison in punishment. How is life in jail not a punishment? Even DNA evidence can wrongfully convict an innocent. Nothing is 100%. Put yourself in the shoes of a wrongfully convicted person about to die because of the DP. How about putting someone from your family in those shoes.

I think she deserves to breathe prison air. Dank, musty, moldy, sweaty, fart smelling prison air. I think she deserves to think of how she will never get freedom again and maybe by chance come to see how wrong she was and use the rest of her life to possibly accomplish something good in life. I don't believe that I nor you should have the power to take another human beings life. Some will say it's not a person doing the execution but the state. I don't buy that, the state is run by people, often times people who are guilty of other crimes of which they have never been caught.

First of all I wasnt come off sassy, but since you wanna go there lets do it!
What in the world would this demonic woman be able to accomplish with the rest of her life? I believe your punishment should fit your crime. Gee spending the rest of your life behind bars with access to food, water, shelter, mail, visitors.....blah, blah, blah that is worse punishment? Sounds like the good life! Some people are sleeping on benches and in parks and most of them cowards in prison that committed these sick crimes are at Club Med...Oh at the expense of us taxpayers!