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View Poll Results: For or against Death Penalty?
Yes 22 88.00%
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  #101  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymcoach97
It's not as cut and dry as you seem to make it...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Since 1973, 131 people have been exonerated. What if those 131 folks would have been unjustly executed? What price do you put on someone's life?

The system has problems that need to be solved. Until they are solved, some stronger legislation must be created to prevent these atrocities.

I have no problem with the death penalty if the system worked better. Unfortunately, it has some serious problems and it's very easy to cast stones, but put yourself into some of these folks' position. What if you (VCURamFan or anyone else) were screwed over in court and put on death row for something that you did not do.

I bet that the very members of this forum who know you would cause a major uproar and change their tune entirely.
Yes, but those 131 were exonerated by DNA evidence, correct? The modern death penalty cannot be applied without DNA evidence. Again, I understand that the system was FUBARed, but it's constantly being revised in order to keep up with the technology.
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  #102  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max
More info about the extra books Dave is talking about. This is pulled of a website I found, I did not write it.

What is the Difference Between Protestant and Catholic Bibles?

The Old Testament

The First Christian Bible
At the time the Christian Bible was being formed, a Greek translation of Jewish Scripture, the Septuagint, was in common use and Christians adopted it as the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. However, around 100 A.D., Jewish rabbis revised their Scripture and established an official canon of Judaism which excluded some portions of the Greek Septuagint. The material excluded was a group of 15 late Jewish books, written during the period 170 B.C. to 70 A.D., that were not found in Hebrew versions of the Jewish Scripture. Christians did not follow the revisions of Judaism and continued to use the text of the Septuagint as the Old Testament.

Protestant Bibles
In the 1500s, Protestant leaders decided to organize the Old Testament material according to the official canon of Judaism rather than the Septuagint. They moved the Old Testament material which was not in the Jewish canon into a separate section of the Bible called the Apocrypha. So, Protestant Bibles then included all the same material as the earlier Bible, but it was divided into two sections: the Old Testament and the Apocrypha. Protestant Bibles included the Apocrypha until the mid 1800s, and the King James Version was originally published with the Apocrypha. However, the books of the Apocrypha were considered less important, and the Apocrypha was eventually dropped from most Protestant editions.

Catholic and Orthodox Bibles
The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches did not follow the Protestant revisions, and they continue to base their Old Testament on the Septuagint. The result is that these versions of the the Bible have more Old Testament books than most Protestant versions. Catholic Old Testaments include 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and the stories of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. Orthodox Old Testaments include these plus 1st and 2nd Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151 and 3rd Maccabees.


The New Testament

The Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox New Testaments are identical.
Really...so the Roman Catholics claim the Apokrapha to be Scripture because its Original Jewish Old Testament.
I guess that works

But thats not the same as the other books that the Catholics dont include which are also called Apokraphal Books...there are millions of them, the Gospels according to every man and his dog, and several books from old testament greats...presumably that explains how some of the apokrapha got into the Roman Catholic bible...and some apokrapha did not.

Confusing that they are both called Apokrapha isnt it
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  #103  
Old 05-05-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
No books were ever removed. I assume you mean before the Canon was created, when there were litterally trillions of books across Christondom.

OK, so who decided what was in what we now know as the Bible, and what was out?
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  #104  
Old 05-05-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymcoach97
It's not as cut and dry as you seem to make it...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Since 1973, 131 people have been exonerated. What if those 131 folks would have been unjustly executed? What price do you put on someone's life?

The system has problems that need to be solved. Until they are solved, some stronger legislation must be created to prevent these atrocities.

I have no problem with the death penalty if the system worked better. Unfortunately, it has some serious problems and it's very easy to cast stones, but put yourself into some of these folks' position. What if you (VCURamFan or anyone else) were screwed over in court and put on death row for something that you did not do.

I bet that the very members of this forum who know you would cause a major uproar and change their tune entirely.
Why does everyone refer back to the same exact website?

Anyway, why did those 131 people even have a chance to be exonerated? Because of the way our system works. In some other countries, you die almost right after you get sentenced, like Saddam did.

The whole "what if it was you" argument is a loaded point. Of course nobody wants to be wrongfully convicted, and most people don't want it to happen to anybody, but I cannot stress enough that just because there is potential for a mistake it does not make the penalty itself unjust. In that case, the problem is the people, not the penalty. If I turned that question around and said, what if this guy raped and murdered your child? Would you want to see him die? It's not fair to personalize a general topic in that way.
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  #105  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
OK, so who decided what was in what we now know as the Bible, and what was out?
Well, the True Bible is the Old Testament. It was canonized by the Jewish Faith, after Five Rivisions (the last of which is the cause of the Apokrapha in the Roman, where the Jews revised their old Testament and knocked out a few books the Romans decided to keep)

Before the Roman Reform under Constentine, there were thousands of "scriptures" that wouldnt have been though of as Scriptures, but as inspired writings, by the Early Church. Unfortunately, many of them were...a little odd. There was no set New Testament...just a bundle of letters and books passed around the early Church. Even Saint Paul in his later writings (and remember he'd been dead two centuries by the time of Constentine) was begining to see that different parts of the church believed slightly different things.

I dont believe for a second that Constentine was a Christian. I believe that he was trying to unite an ailing Empire by putting it back under ONE religious belief...and there in lay the Problem...just what EXACTLY did the Christians believe that distinguished them from Jews?

The Council of Nicea...which was the Early Churches last Stand Free of Rome, was called by the Emporar...where all the Bishops would meet and give him a full statement on what they believed...well you had bloody everything from Jew, to Gnostic...and they all had to try and come to aggreement over which documents floating around the Church actually was the core of their believif POST Jew.

When the Council couldnt decide a certain thing, the Emporar, after viewing all the facts would decree what was true and what was not. Thats why you have Churches that still dissagree about the Date for the Feast of the Ressurection.

This Council kinda digressed from its Scripture to be a purely theological debate. This was the foundations of the Doctrine and Tradition, and liturgy and ceremonial...rather then Scriptures.

Meanwhile, as the Empire began to split. Constantine made a mad dash to the Constantinople. A new Rome in the East...and he asked a Bishop called "Euisebus" to prepare some Scripture he could hand out to all his new Churches. Euisebus put together a bundle of Inspired Oracles, that had been aggreed upon by Most of Nicea...and it was those Oracles that became the basis for the work done by Saint Jerome. Jerome took these Oracles (manuscripts known as Codex) and he translated the Greek and Hebrew and other stuff into Latin

The Old Vulgate was born, and Revised into better Latin to creat The Vulgate. The basis of the Bible you see today.

The later revisions...are more like Editions of the Bible...they are faffing around with translations, and different words...but they dont omit Books...except for the fact the Protestant Church keep with the Final Jewish Revision of the Old Testament, where as the Roman Catholic do not, evidently, recognise the validity of that final Jewish Revision.

Many of the books which Nicea did not aggree to, are still around. The Gospel According to Saint Thomas, was made famous in the film Stigmata. The Book of Enoch is fantastic....The Coptic Church and Armenian Church do include An extra Book...goodness only knows how or why...but they do. Nothing more then a few pages of stuff though...the extra verse here and there...you know how it is.

Various different Churches split so badly with Rome they became Denominations. MANY Gnostic Sects refused to use the Nicea Compiliation...and they have thus got a heretical christian bible...I reckon their cults died out though...The Orthodox Church fell out with Rome over tradition and dogma...which the Church Fathers kept adding to after Nicea, the theologians of the Roman Church, you know, Saint augustine etc...The Protestant Church just detested the authority of the Roman Church...Rome kinda got out of control and finally a good proportion of Christendom told her to STFU....and we've never been the same sinse
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  #106  
Old 05-05-2009, 11:24 PM
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Look what happened In The Life of David Gale.............................................. .................................................. .........................







Great film by the way
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  #107  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Why does everyone refer back to the same exact website? Could it be that it has the information there? If you don't like the site, find another. Are you saying that the information on this site in false?

Anyway, why did those 131 people even have a chance to be exonerated? Because of the way our system works. In some other countries, you die almost right after you get sentenced, like Saddam did.

The whole "what if it was you" argument is a loaded point. Of course nobody wants to be wrongfully convicted, and most people don't want it to happen to anybody, but I cannot stress enough that just because there is potential for a mistake it does not make the penalty itself unjust. In that case, the problem is the people, not the penalty. If I turned that question around and said, what if this guy raped and murdered your child? Would you want to see him die? It's not fair to personalize a general topic in that way.
I can't answer your question because I have no children, though if something like that happened to a family member, I still would not want the death penalty. There have been many people who have lived through a situation like that and don't wish for the death penalty to be applied. It has been in the news and should be easy enough for you to find specific examples if you wish to find them.

I know you don't like the site I am linking you to, but here are a few people who were executed and were possibly innocent.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/exec...sibly-innocent

How nice of us to fit in the rankings of these countries.

Quote:
Most Executions carried out in 2007
Country Number Executions per million people in country
China 470+ (other sources est. 5,000)1 0.36+ (other sources est. 3.78)1
Iran 317+ 4.50+
Saudi Arabia 143+ 5.18+
Pakistan 135+ 0.78+
USA 42 0.14
Iraq 33+ 1.13+
1.Based on a combination of published and anecdotal evidence, Dui Hua foundation suggests the real tally in China may be as high as 5,000 (3.78 per million people)[31]
From this wiki source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

Here is more information. If you read the information, you will find that the courts do not change the verdict on and innocent person who was wrongly executed.

http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm
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  #108  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCURamFan
That site Buzzard posted is total horsecrap!

Seriously, the only conservative, reformed, evangelical Christian denomination on there is the Southern Baptists! No wonder it was easy to find four of them that didn't like the death penalty!
And why is that VCU? Is it because you only think that you and your sect are "True Christians?" Your lack of a valid response and your argument of "my religion is better than your religion" is total horse crap and something I would expect from a child. Care to do some research and posting a link to your findings where you say that all of these Christian denominations are pro DP? I'll be waiting, though I doubt that you have it in you to actually do the research. You'd much rather hide from the fact that many Christian denominations are not pro DP, and pulling your head from the sand may actually open up your eyes.
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  #109  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
I know the Bible doesnt contridict itself. Therefore, if GOD orders State Excution and Wars...he cant be viewing them as breaking the commandments...thats simple logic
Then you don't know squat and can't admit it due to your ego. I can point out many, many contradictions in the bible. A cursory search on google will also point that out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Yes you did.

We've already determined your not here to learn.
Your lame attempt to read my mind makes me chuckle. I can and do learn from others, but not from you due to your inability to put your thoughts out in a concise, educated fashion as some other people on here do.
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  #110  
Old 05-06-2009, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Yup!!! While people are carrying on about giving these monsters freedoms and second chances do they care about the victims? Do they think what happened to the poor child who was impacted by such a disgusting act? No they don't!
How do you know that they don't? Have you ever asked them? Have you ever asked me? You just like to bolster your own beliefs with false accusations or downright lies.
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