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View Poll Results: For or against Death Penalty?
Yes 22 88.00%
No 3 12.00%
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  #91  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gymcoach97
Personally, I am against it until the system is fixed.

Somehow, the U.S. needs to better categorize murder. Let me give you an example...

A child molester or someone who kidnaps or rapes, or murders a little kid deserves the ultimate penalty.

Fixed. At least in my eyes... that is correct.
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  #92  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
Well.. ust my .02 on the way this thread has turned...

Wonder what's in the books of the bible that were removed.
If you needed to know God would have put them there


On a side note you have to define removed. I don't think any book was ever put into the bible and then discarded after a time.
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  #93  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:56 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
Fixed. At least in my eyes... that is correct.
I agree with that but in the extreme cases.

If a girl gets drunk and screws a guy in the car and then cries rape dude should not die. But if he beats her to bloody pulp and then rapes her there is no doubt in my mind he should be executed.

Molesters should be hung by their toes and beaten to death with metal rods.
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  #94  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Crisco
I agree with that but in the extreme cases.

If a girl gets drunk and screws a guy in the car and then cries rape dude should not die. But if he beats her to bloody pulp and then rapes her there is no doubt in my mind he should be executed.

Molesters should be hung by their toes and beaten to death with metal rods.
Yup!!! While people are carrying on about giving these monsters freedoms and second chances do they care about the victims? Do they think what happened to the poor child who was impacted by such a disgusting act? No they don't!
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  #95  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:01 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Yup!!! While people are carrying on about giving these monsters freedoms and second chances do they care about the victims? Do they think what happened to the poor child who was impacted by such a disgusting act? No they don't!
There is no going back.

You molest a child you are forever a child molester.

There are no second chances from that. If we start executing people for this crime maybe we will start seeing this perverts think twice.
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  #96  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymcoach97
Personally, I am against it until the system is fixed.

Somehow, the U.S. needs to better categorize murder. Let me give you an example...

A child molester who kidnaps, rapes, and murders a little kid deserves the ultimate penalty.

However, let's pretend some guy comes home, catches his wife in bed with another man, grabs his gun, and shoots the guy. Is this guy a vicious, brutal killer or just someone that "lost it" and committed a crime of passion? Does he truly deserve to die? I don't think so. I don't think he's truly a menace to society - the guy probably would have never killed in his lifetime except this one instant set him off and he lost control.

I have seen cases like this...where a child molester/serial murderer gets a plea deal and the guy who commits a crime of passion and more or less goes temporarily insane gets the death penalty.

At the other end of the spectrum, the law officials must be damn sure that they have the right person. I'd contend that if DNA evidence is not available or it's clearly obvious (key witnesses, etc.), then the death penalty should not be an option.

So, if we fix the system, I'm for it. But, until then, I'm against it because there are some serious flaws - largely because it is state-regulated as opposed to being regulated by the federal government. I think that the federal government needs to set some specific guidelines for all states to abide by. Now, I have no problem with states making their own decision as to whether or not to impose the death penalty. But, if they are going to use it, then there needs to be universal standards and regulations. Right now, there are not and that's a problem in my opinion.
Haha, you're 33 years behind schedule, buddy!

The Supreme Court case of Furman v. Georgia (1974) said exactly this: that the manner in the death penalty was being applied was unconstitutional. They believed it was being applied arbitrarily at best & racially at worst. Abolitionists rejoiced, believing that society had "evolved" to the point where captial punishment was obsolete.

However, there was a public outcry & the states immediately re-worked their statutes to comply with the Supreme Court's complaints. 2 years later, in Gregg v. Georgia, the State of Georgia had sentenced Gregg to death. He appealed this to the Supreme Court, assuming it would be overturned, but that didn't happen. You see, by that time, the laws ahd been re-written to define only a very narrow number of cases in which the death penalty was available. Also, if a man was convicted of one of those crimes, he would then be put through a second trial in order to determine whether or not he would recieve the death penalty (it's referred to as a bifurcated trial).

Just to be clear: you can't get the death penalty for:
  • negligent manslaughter
  • corporate manslaughter
  • reckless manslaughter
  • vehicluar manslaughter
  • involuntary manslaughter
  • voluntary manslaughter
  • class 2 felony murder
  • class 1 felony murder
You can only recieve Capital Punishment in cases where you've been convicted of Capital Murder, which is defined as follows:
Quote:
the unlawful killing of another human being with intent or malice aforethought.
Even in capital murder cases, it's very rare to recieve the death penalty, becuase in the second half of the bifurcated trial, there are extremely stringent requirements placed on the courts that must be met.

So don't let the propaganda fool you, the system is extremely reliable. The judge doesn't just flip a coin & guess.
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  #97  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwalker
Well.. ust my .02 on the way this thread has turned...

Wonder what's in the books of the bible that were removed.
No books were ever removed. I assume you mean before the Canon was created, when there were litterally trillions of books across Christondom.


Those books are refered to as apokraphal texts...they range from Not Bad...to absolute Lord of The Rings style stuff.

The Apokraphal texts tend to outline the work of Angelic Host, they tend to also be psedo-prophetic in style. There are about ten Apokraphal Texts that are mainly Historical volumes of happenings between the Two Testaments, that the Roman Catholics think are so good people really should read them even if they arent strictly speaking in the Canon, So a Roman Bible has a third section entitled "Apokrapha" with a few of the best...Macabees being one, I think Sirach is another

My personal Favourite Apokraphal Text is The Book of Enoch. He writes a great deal about Nephilim, that is the offspring of a union between Host and Human. It happened before the Flood, it also happened at least once big style, after the flood.

the most famous Nephilim in the Bible is probably Goliath (as in the one that King David killed) the give away is the description of him as a "Giant" Nephilim were known for being abnormally large and abnormally violent I think.
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  #98  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:20 PM
gymcoach97
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Originally Posted by VCURamFan
Haha, you're 33 years behind schedule, buddy!

The Supreme Court case of Furman v. Georgia (1974) said exactly this: that the manner in the death penalty was being applied was unconstitutional. They believed it was being applied arbitrarily at best & racially at worst. Abolitionists rejoiced, believing that society had "evolved" to the point where captial punishment was obsolete.

However, there was a public outcry & the states immediately re-worked their statutes to comply with the Supreme Court's complaints. 2 years later, in Gregg v. Georgia, the State of Georgia had sentenced Gregg to death. He appealed this to the Supreme Court, assuming it would be overturned, but that didn't happen. You see, by that time, the laws ahd been re-written to define only a very narrow number of cases in which the death penalty was available. Also, if a man was convicted of one of those crimes, he would then be put through a second trial in order to determine whether or not he would recieve the death penalty (it's referred to as a bifurcated trial).

Just to be clear: you can't get the death penalty for:
  • negligent manslaughter
  • corporate manslaughter
  • reckless manslaughter
  • vehicluar manslaughter
  • involuntary manslaughter
  • voluntary manslaughter
  • class 2 felony murder
  • class 1 felony murder
You can only recieve Capital Punishment in cases where you've been convicted of Capital Murder, which is defined as follows:
Even in capital murder cases, it's very rare to recieve the death penalty, becuase in the second half of the bifurcated trial, there are extremely stringent requirements placed on the courts that must be met.

So don't let the propaganda fool you, the system is extremely reliable. The judge doesn't just flip a coin & guess.

It's not as cut and dry as you seem to make it...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Since 1973, 131 people have been exonerated. What if those 131 folks would have been unjustly executed? What price do you put on someone's life?

The system has problems that need to be solved. Until they are solved, some stronger legislation must be created to prevent these atrocities.

I have no problem with the death penalty if the system worked better. Unfortunately, it has some serious problems and it's very easy to cast stones, but put yourself into some of these folks' position. What if you (VCURamFan or anyone else) were screwed over in court and put on death row for something that you did not do.

I bet that the very members of this forum who know you would cause a major uproar and change their tune entirely.
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  #99  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:31 PM
Crisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymcoach97
It's not as cut and dry as you seem to make it...

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...-death-penalty

Since 1973, 131 people have been exonerated. What if those 131 folks would have been unjustly executed? What price do you put on someone's life?

The system has problems that need to be solved. Until they are solved, some stronger legislation must be created to prevent these atrocities.

I have no problem with the death penalty if the system worked better. Unfortunately, it has some serious problems and it's very easy to cast stones, but put yourself into some of these folks' position. What if you (VCURamFan or anyone else) were screwed over in court and put on death row for something that you did not do.

I bet that the very members of this forum who know you would cause a major uproar and change their tune entirely.
How many people suffer in jail for life that are innocent?
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  #100  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:51 PM
Max
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
No books were ever removed. I assume you mean before the Canon was created, when there were litterally trillions of books across Christondom.


Those books are refered to as apokraphal texts...they range from Not Bad...to absolute Lord of The Rings style stuff.

The Apokraphal texts tend to outline the work of Angelic Host, they tend to also be psedo-prophetic in style. There are about ten Apokraphal Texts that are mainly Historical volumes of happenings between the Two Testaments, that the Roman Catholics think are so good people really should read them even if they arent strictly speaking in the Canon, So a Roman Bible has a third section entitled "Apokrapha" with a few of the best...Macabees being one, I think Sirach is another

My personal Favourite Apokraphal Text is The Book of Enoch. He writes a great deal about Nephilim, that is the offspring of a union between Host and Human. It happened before the Flood, it also happened at least once big style, after the flood.

the most famous Nephilim in the Bible is probably Goliath (as in the one that King David killed) the give away is the description of him as a "Giant" Nephilim were known for being abnormally large and abnormally violent I think.
More info about the extra books Dave is talking about. This is pulled of a website I found, I did not write it.

What is the Difference Between Protestant and Catholic Bibles?

The Old Testament

The First Christian Bible
At the time the Christian Bible was being formed, a Greek translation of Jewish Scripture, the Septuagint, was in common use and Christians adopted it as the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. However, around 100 A.D., Jewish rabbis revised their Scripture and established an official canon of Judaism which excluded some portions of the Greek Septuagint. The material excluded was a group of 15 late Jewish books, written during the period 170 B.C. to 70 A.D., that were not found in Hebrew versions of the Jewish Scripture. Christians did not follow the revisions of Judaism and continued to use the text of the Septuagint as the Old Testament.

Protestant Bibles
In the 1500s, Protestant leaders decided to organize the Old Testament material according to the official canon of Judaism rather than the Septuagint. They moved the Old Testament material which was not in the Jewish canon into a separate section of the Bible called the Apocrypha. So, Protestant Bibles then included all the same material as the earlier Bible, but it was divided into two sections: the Old Testament and the Apocrypha. Protestant Bibles included the Apocrypha until the mid 1800s, and the King James Version was originally published with the Apocrypha. However, the books of the Apocrypha were considered less important, and the Apocrypha was eventually dropped from most Protestant editions.

Catholic and Orthodox Bibles
The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches did not follow the Protestant revisions, and they continue to base their Old Testament on the Septuagint. The result is that these versions of the the Bible have more Old Testament books than most Protestant versions. Catholic Old Testaments include 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and the stories of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. Orthodox Old Testaments include these plus 1st and 2nd Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151 and 3rd Maccabees.


The New Testament

The Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox New Testaments are identical.
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