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  #21  
Old 04-29-2009, 09:32 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonlion
I would also add that living standards and enviroments of slavery/serfdom etc was somewhat worse than living standards of today.

People fight and die for the notion of liberty, so even if you work every hour under the sun, you still have freedom, something America fought for.

I'm not sure its a good comparison.

What is it to be poor today, not to have a mobile phone or T.V?!!!!!!!!
I think everyone's standard of living was lower back then.

Anyways, I'm not that familiar with the anti-slavery movement in Europe, but I do know that it was a major issue when the US was being founded. In fact, the first US anti-slavery legislation (that I know of) was proposed in 1777, by John Jay. However, the Founding Fathers realized that slavery was just too controversial for the fledgling union and, if the country was going to survive against England, then it needed to be put on the back burner to be dealt with later.

Also, in America, slavery was something of a necessity and it didn't start out as just whites enslaving blacks. Many Irish and Chinese were brought over for slavery purposes. An old history text I read gave some statistics about slavery in America just before the Civil War. I think it was 90% of families who owned slaves, owned only one or two. Many of those slaves were treated like members of the family, because the family simply couldn't afford an unhappy or unhealthy slave. Of the 10% of families that could afford many slaves, only a few of those were big plantations that could afford to abuse their slaves without too much financial loss. Of course, those were the organizations that got the most attention and they needed to be shut down, however, they did not characterize the average southern slave owner of the 19th century.

Anyways, like Dave said about the Bible's slavery laws. No one could keep a slave for more than 7 years (every 7th year was the Year of Jubilee, in which all debts were forgiven and all slaves were freed), unless the slave CHOSE to continue being a slave. Then he or she was referred to as an indentured servant, meaning that they chose to stay with their masters out of their own free will and were usually motivated by love for their masters.

Also, another slavery law in the Bible, if you found a slave who had escaped from his master, then you weren't allowed to return the slave to that same master. You were to consider the slave a free man.
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  #22  
Old 04-29-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
I think everyone's standard of living was lower back then.

Anyways, I'm not that familiar with the anti-slavery movement in Europe, but I do know that it was a major issue when the US was being founded. In fact, the first US anti-slavery legislation (that I know of) was proposed in 1777, by John Jay. However, the Founding Fathers realized that slavery was just too controversial for the fledgling union and, if the country was going to survive against England, then it needed to be put on the back burner to be dealt with later.

Also, in America, slavery was something of a necessity and it didn't start out as just whites enslaving blacks. Many Irish and Chinese were brought over for slavery purposes. An old history text I read gave some statistics about slavery in America just before the Civil War. I think it was 90% of families who owned slaves, owned only one or two. Many of those slaves were treated like members of the family, because the family simply couldn't afford an unhappy or unhealthy slave. Of the 10% of families that could afford many slaves, only a few of those were big plantations that could afford to abuse their slaves without too much financial loss. Of course, those were the organizations that got the most attention and they needed to be shut down, however, they did not characterize the average southern slave owner of the 19th century.

Anyways, like Dave said about the Bible's slavery laws. No one could keep a slave for more than 7 years (every 7th year was the Year of Jubilee, in which all debts were forgiven and all slaves were freed), unless the slave CHOSE to continue being a slave. Then he or she was referred to as an indentured servant, meaning that they chose to stay with their masters out of their own free will and were usually motivated by love for their masters.

Also, another slavery law in the Bible, if you found a slave who had escaped from his master, then you weren't allowed to return the slave to that same master. You were to consider the slave a free man.


Right i see what you mean. I am by no means an expert on anti slavery movements in Europe, i just know that certainly if you were Christian it was prohibited.

I agree that slavery/bondage is a lot more complex and diverse than we are commonly taught about these days.

It still irks me that it is seen as a purely white oppression when Africa was enslaved more of its own people to sell to the slave ships.

One thing that surprised me was that most of the output of slaves were actually sent to Brazil and only a small fraction went to USA or the Caribean.
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2009, 08:08 PM
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Chapter twenty two

*Stealing livestock deserves the following compensation (5 ox for everyone stolen, and 4 sheep for everyone stolen) This mainly applies for possesion of Stolen Livestock with the intention of killing for meat or sale.
*If you find a theif stealing your animals, you may kick their head in If you kill them it doesnt count as murder. If they recover then they must pay back double what they tried to steal, if they cant, you can sell them into slavery
*If another farmers cattle eats the produce growing in your field, the other farmer must give all that was eaten back from his own crop.
*Fire, whether deliberate or accidental, must be replaced by the firestarter.

*Any borrowed monies that are subsequently stolen become twice the debt to the thief when caught.
*Any borrowed monies or that are subsequently stolen, but the theif is unknown, then the Master must go before the judges to see if the borrowed monies need to be paid back and if they need to be doubled or further compensation added.

* Property rights (when challenged for ownership) are settled by the judge for land, posession, clothing and cattle. The losing party must repay double.

*Borrowed livestock that goes missing, is forgiven by swaering an oath, or by finding the carcus of the missing livestock
*Borrowed livestock that is stolen follows tje same procedure as money

* Hired Possessions that break down before being returned are forgiven if under the direct supervision of the Master when they became faulty. If not, they must be replaced before being returned

*If you do have sex before marriage you are required to make good by marrying the woman.
*In the refusal of marriage by the womans parents, the male must pay dowry (in other words, he still has to financially support her as if she were his Wife)

*Anyone who deals in magic potions of any kind is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in beastiality is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in sacrificial rituals outside of Christianity is punishable by State Execution

*Strangers are to be welcomed and free from oppression
*Widows and Orphans are to be looked after (If you wrong any of these three personality types, GOD promises to get personally involved, He may see to your earthly death, that your wives are made widows, and your children are made orphans)

*DO NOT Charge poor people who borrow money interest on their repayments!

*In the situation that you borrow someones coat, it must be returned to them by the end of the day...GOD gets very upset at people who leave others lacking through a cold night

*Do NOT Curse or Slander your Political Leaders

*Do not eat from any animal thats been killed in the wild by a preditor

*The first born of everything, including Produce, Livestock and Human Offsprings, are to be offer to GOD (The Livestock may be separated from its parents on the Seventh day after birth, the Human Offspring may be dedicated rather then sacrificed )

Borrowed could also mean hired in the above context
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Old 04-30-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Chapter twenty two

*Stealing livestock deserves the following compensation (5 ox for everyone stolen, and 4 sheep for everyone stolen) This mainly applies for possesion of Stolen Livestock with the intention of killing for meat or sale.
*If you find a theif stealing your animals, you may kick their head in If you kill them it doesnt count as murder. If they recover then they must pay back double what they tried to steal, if they cant, you can sell them into slavery
*If another farmers cattle eats the produce growing in your field, the other farmer must give all that was eaten back from his own crop.
*Fire, whether deliberate or accidental, must be replaced by the firestarter.

*Any borrowed monies that are subsequently stolen become twice the debt to the thief when caught.
*Any borrowed monies or that are subsequently stolen, but the theif is unknown, then the Master must go before the judges to see if the borrowed monies need to be paid back and if they need to be doubled or further compensation added.

* Property rights (when challenged for ownership) are settled by the judge for land, posession, clothing and cattle. The losing party must repay double.

*Borrowed livestock that goes missing, is forgiven by swaering an oath, or by finding the carcus of the missing livestock
*Borrowed livestock that is stolen follows tje same procedure as money

* Hired Possessions that break down before being returned are forgiven if under the direct supervision of the Master when they became faulty. If not, they must be replaced before being returned

*If you do have sex before marriage you are required to make good by marrying the woman.*In the refusal of marriage by the womans parents, the male must pay dowry (in other words, he still has to financially support her as if she were his Wife)

*Anyone who deals in magic potions of any kind is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in beastiality is punishable by state execution
*Anyone involved in sacrificial rituals outside of Christianity is punishable by State Execution

*Strangers are to be welcomed and free from oppression
*Widows and Orphans are to be looked after (If you wrong any of these three personality types, GOD promises to get personally involved, He may see to your earthly death, that your wives are made widows, and your children are made orphans)

*DO NOT Charge poor people who borrow money interest on their repayments!

*In the situation that you borrow someones coat, it must be returned to them by the end of the day...GOD gets very upset at people who leave others lacking through a cold night

*Do NOT Curse or Slander your Political Leaders

*Do not eat from any animal thats been killed in the wild by a preditor

*The first born of everything, including Produce, Livestock and Human Offsprings, are to be offer to GOD (The Livestock may be separated from its parents on the Seventh day after birth, the Human Offspring may be dedicated rather then sacrificed )

Borrowed could also mean hired in the above context
Food for thought!?!!
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Food for thought!?!!
ain't it
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Food for thought!?!!
interesting.

Adultory is punishable by death, but sleeping with a woman outside of wedlock in either case...is not.

I was suprised at that
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
interesting.

Adultory is punishable by death, but sleeping with a woman outside of wedlock in either case...is not.

I was suprised at that
Good!! Looks like im a little safe for now!! I can't stand cheaters and especially homewreckers!!
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Good!! Looks like im a little safe for now!! I can't stand cheaters and especially homewreckers!!
its alright for the woman...she dont get punished!

She either marries him if her parents say so...or she doesnt but he pays for her future
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  #29  
Old 05-01-2009, 07:29 PM
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Chapter 23

GOD repeats the rule about being nice to Strangers

* Fraud, lies, and false testimoney are not condoned by GOD
* Do not partake in wickedness even if its done by a large group of people
* Do not incite evil, or become a ringleader for large groups of troublemakers
* Dont be a con artist, or scam those who are poor
* Dont think you can get away with being mean to your enemies or competitors
* Regardless of your personal likes and dislikes if you see someone struggling who needs help, you must do so.
* Do not wrong those that do good
* Do not expect rewards for your help, infact dont accept gifts (at the Store we are not allowed to accept gifts from a customer)
* You may work for 6 days but must rest on the seventh (including livestock)
* You may work the farmland for 6 years, but let it grow wild on the 7th (you wont have a servant to tend the land anyway that year) any produce can go to the animals or to the poor for free.

* GOD Institutes The Feast of The Passover (A Seven Day feast where only unlevened bread may be consumed)
* GOD institutes The Feast of The Harvest (This to be done when the First Crop is collected
*GOD institutes a Second Feast for The Harvest (A celebration to be held after Harvest is completed)

*Produce and offerings, along with all Males are to attend the Feasts at The Temple

* Do not bow or serve pagen gods
* Dont make any covernants with pagens already living in the Holy Land
* Remove those pagens, to avoid falling into their sin

(First mention of the Rule that Israel Broke, resulting in the claim of Palastine)


* An Angel is appointed to guard the Israel, its a "Covernant Host" (not completely sure I know what a Covernant Host is, but many Angels have appointments over projects, houses, families, churches, etc. This Host is extremely important. I Think this is a Reference to The Archangel, Saint Michael, because GOD says that the Angel will ensure military victories for Israel against Six different Nations. GOD says "My name is in Him" about the Covernant Host. Michael is pretty much believed to be the Standard bearer of GOOD in the Created World. He symbolizes the best possible Creation of GOD outside of a perfected-post ressurectional human. He leads the forces of Light. It looks like one of his Roles is The Covernant Host for the Law.


What GOD promises keepers of the law

*Long Mortal Life
*Blessings on all consumables
*Relief from sickness and disease
*removal of infertility
*pysical conquest over mortal enemies
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2009, 06:15 PM
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From Chapter 25

What GOD will except as a common offering

*Gold
*Silver
*Brass
*Blue, Purple or Red fabrics
*Goats hair or anything made from it
*Rams hyde (likes them to be dyed red please )
*Badger hyde
*Some exotic types of Woods, particularly the type used for the Ark (His Sons a carpenter )
*Oil for fuel
*Spiced Oil for annointing
*Insence
*Precious Gems or stones

He'd Like to have his own Tabernakle (A house in which he can Live to be near to His people)

His Cathedra (Throne) is to be made out of Gold, and it is to be surrounded by Two Cherubs each made of Gold. The Throne is to be placed onto of a Wooden Box which has been encrusted with Gold, inside the box is to be a copy of The Law (In other words, He wants The Ark of the Covernant) Measurements are given...apparently he will appear above the box, and inbetween the Golden Cherubs, hovering above the miniature Throne (Its not big enough to sit on)

His Royal Desk is to be made out of wood, and encrusted in gold, and its to have a full set of cups, bowls, plates, spoons, and He'd like to have Bread left in the recepticals at all times.

Lighting arrangements. He'd like a Menorah Candlestick made out of pure Gold, he'd also like seven Golden oil lamps. He'd like a pair of tongues, and he'd also like a candlesnuffer All in Gold.

These can be considered offerings in and of themselves, the very basics needed before one can actually perform any sort of ceremonial sacrifice
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