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View Poll Results: Should the Lone Star state secede from the U.S.?
Texas should secede from the U.S. 9 37.50%
Texas should not secede from the U.S. 13 54.17%
Don't know... 2 8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #111  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:46 AM
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VCURamFan VCURamFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Has a MEXICAN pissed you off lately? All your posts are totally tripping me out lately..
He prolly got turned down for prom by a hot little senorita.
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  #112  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:49 AM
Hughes_GOAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Has a MEXICAN pissed you off lately? All your posts are totally tripping me out lately..
nah, he was talking about how liberal we've become to allow a lot of the nonsense we do. and when we live in a time, in America specifically, where there is even an option to press 1 for English.....that's bad!
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  #113  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:51 AM
Hughes_GOAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCURamFan
He prolly got turned down for prom by a hot little senorita.
girls don't turn me down....they ask me out!
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  #114  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:51 AM
Miss Foxy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughes_GOAT
girls don't turn me down....they ask me out!
Oh snap!! You've been hanging out with Xsub lately? lol..
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  #115  
Old 05-02-2009, 03:02 AM
Hughes_GOAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Foxy
Oh snap!! You've been hanging out with Xsub lately? lol..
ask the ladies here ; )
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  #116  
Old 05-02-2009, 03:23 AM
atomdanger
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Originally Posted by Vizion
You are kidding right? Universal healthcare is a terrible idea...our taxes will go through the roof, the quality of medical services will be severely diminished and the lack of competition will lead to no new medical discoveries. Look, doctors, they're by and large pretty smart, most of us aren't able to do what they do...what is their incentive to go to school for 10 years to be doctors, or to specialize in a certain area if they are making peanuts.

Every year hundreds of thousands of people from Europe and Canada come to the U.S. because of their weaker health care systems. But by all means, let's have a vote, this is a democracy yes?
LMAO

Are you joking? Thousands of people come from Canada and Europe because of health care? Come on now. hahahahahaha

The doctors aren't the ones who don't make good money in a universal healthcare system,
the health insurance companies don't,
and hospitals aren't giant money making businesses.

Universal Health care works everywhere in the world,
why wouldn't it here?

Our taxes are higher than other countries with universal health care (not all, but some).
Apparently you have never had to just deal with being sick,
because you couldn't afford to see a Dr.
Or sit for 15 hours in an ER because you're puking,
and get antibiotics and a 1200 dollar ER bill for going there.

Again, people who actually are against everybody getting to see a Dr make me sick.
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  #117  
Old 05-02-2009, 03:26 AM
atomdanger
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1. Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

2. Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

* Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

* Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960


* Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

* Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

* Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

* Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

3. Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive


* Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

* Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.


* Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

* Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

* Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money

4. Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services

* Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

* Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

* Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

* Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

* Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

* Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

5. Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice

* Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

* Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

* Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

* Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

* Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved

6. Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public

* Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

* Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system (see The Harris Poll #78, October 20, 2005)

* Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country

7. Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient

* Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.

* Fact Two: The same procedure in the same hospital the year after conversion from not-for profit to for-profit costs in between 20 to 35% more

* Fact Three: Health care costs in the United States grew more in the United States under managed care in 1990 to 1996 than any other industrialized nation with single payer universal health care

* Fact Four: The quality of health care in the US has deteriorated under managed care. Access problems have increased. The number of uninsured has dramatically increased (increase of 10 million to 43.4 million from 1989 to 1996, increase of 2.4% from 1989 to 1996- 16% in 1996 and increasing each year).

* Fact Five: The level of satisfaction with the US health care system is the lowest of any industrialized nation.

* Fact Six: 80% of citizens and 71% of doctors believe that managed care has caused quality of care to be compromised

* Conclusion: For profit, managed care can not solve the US health care problems because health care is not a commodity that people shop for, and quality of care must always be compromised when the motivating factor for corporations is to save money through denial of care and decreasing provider costs. In addition managed care has introduced problems of patient confidentiality and disrupted the continuity of care through having limited provider networks.
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  #118  
Old 05-02-2009, 04:56 AM
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Vizion Vizion is offline
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think what you will atom, I don't have the time to read all that c&p. I think its a bad idea and besides this thread has gotten way off course!!!
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  #119  
Old 05-02-2009, 05:03 AM
atomdanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizion
think what you will atom, I don't have the time to read all that c&p. I think its a bad idea and besides this thread has gotten way off course!!!
Exactly...

I prove it won't cost more, and disprove many other MYTHS,
and its time to say no response
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  #120  
Old 05-02-2009, 07:03 AM
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Jonlion Jonlion is offline
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Wow...........

It would seem to me that its a bit of a cop out to actually want to disband the united states after 100 days of Obama Presidentcy. Are things that drasticallly bad?

Furthermore i would of thought that some patriotismmwould still exist that you would want the Union to survive.

If Texas was to go, it undermines the whole system, i think it would be disastrous. Also what message would be sent out to the enemies of the United States, that you are divided? They would be rubbing their hands with glee. To bail out just because times are bad is poor form to me.

Obviously my knowledge of American Politics is less than any of you but even if Obama has 8 years, its my understanding that there could only be so muxch change he could exert upon Texas, like its only Federal things he can change?

From what i can see a 20 year Obama term would not change and brainwash the Texas people into socialist softies! Cmon we know that is never going to happen.
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