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View Poll Results: Do you think Anderson is purposely not putting forth effort to show a good fight?
Yes 8 42.11%
No 11 57.89%
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  #11  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
1)You say this as if it's not the case.

2) Seriously though, the UFC has ultimate control of their business, and pretty much a monopoly on the sport at it's highest level. They pretty much make or break the fighters, not the other way around. I don't doubt that Silva may be upset with the UFC, but I just don't see how intentionally putting on a "boring" fight helps his cause at all. If the UFC wanted to, they could release Silva and the backlash would be minimal at best. Sure, the hardcore fans like us would be talking about it for months, but the common fan would forget in about a week and the UFC will STILL be selling out arenas and cashing in big on PPV's. Nothing would change.

3) Besides, it would not be a very logically sound plan to try and intentionally put on a boring fight in order to get back at the company. That plan would assume that the other fighter in the cage is going be boring too. What happens if the opponent comes out guns blazing? No, Anderson is not a dumbass, you said it yourself, and only a dumbass would think they can get back at the UFC by intentionally putting on a boring fight. Not to mention that if that was his plan, if backfired because it's Silva who is the one taking the most criticism for the fight, not the UFC, not even Thales Leites (who really does deserve most of the blame).

4) When Randy left the company nobody accused him of "ducking" anybody. In fact, a lot of people came to Couture's defense and painted the UFC and Dana as greedy and evil (I was not one of them). If Silva wanted to get back at the UFC for something that has him upset, he would call them out directly in the media, and it WOULD work because that puts heat DIRECTLY on the company rather than on Silva.
1) He's not the only one capable of being a smartarse

2) The UFC believe in contracts. Sure they could release him anytime, but dont forget dispite his recent poor showing, he has a great many fans, and for good reason. When he performs to his best, he really is truely worthy of being in the top spot of the UFC.

You'd be suprised what a single man can do to an institution. Silva is playing with fire, if this theory is true, but he's also totally safe at present. He cant talk direct but through an interpretor with a camp that probably wants to play it down and safe a little bit. So he's not doing anything more then speak a purist line "I'm a counter striker, I had a game plan, I played it, dont blame me" BUT He's also putting the UFC in a difficult position. He knows that the more boring he is, the harder it will be for the UFC to keep hyping him up. There will come a point in time when they might have to cut him because he's no longer the draw. It would of course be an amicable split. Silva appologises for the type of fighter he is...but he is that type of fighter, The UFC appologise for cutting him because they know he's a good fighter but it doesnt sell.

He leaves, he fights boxing...he gets it out of his system...he pleads to come back...they bring him back Penn style. Whilst he's gone the landscapes changed, Silva returns to wow the crowd and a second Title Reign awaits.

Thats the theory any way

3) Well, Silva can adapt. We havent seen him fight someone else exciting to see if he really will just let himself lose, or he really will still just try and play it safe. Perhaps we'll see with Maia. I dont think he's "getting back" at the UFC...I think he just sees it as a means to an end...he's not angry, he just knows how to get what he wants.

Silva isnt completely getting the blame. Dana White still supports him even if embarissed, Patrick Miletich is supporting him, Other counter Strikers with great names are supporting him. His fans are still supporting him, You are still supporting him

and besides...the topic eventually gets boring...in two fights from now, we wont expect anything more from him, it wont be worth speaking about. Its not going to get much worse for him now, then this. He's weathered the storm, because he cant read half the negative press, and doesnt reply coz he cant speak the language...except...I think he might know more then he claims...He's fought in Cage Rage based in England, He's fought in the U.S for years...I think he knows a bit more then how to say "hello"...but yeah, he's playing dumb in that department...and it works for the purposes of "no comment" he's not expected to defend himself, except through an untrained, non professional interpretor, who can make him smell like roses

I'll not forget the look on his face at the post fight press conference when he sat back and smiled whilst Chuck Liddell became his mouth piece. He's not stupid. Infact he's extremely clever...if this succeeds, he might be the only fighter to have played the system at its own game at his level.

4) and look at Couture now. Look where it got him. The fans are no longer vocal about his ordeal at the hands of an evil institution. He was forced to come back tail between his legs, forced to fight with the obvious result he'd probably lose, he's not really "in" with the management anymore, and he's so old noone is going to give him a second chance.

Yeah...Couture was in the Army, He's playing it in the light, which works FOR A WHILE if you're prepared to take the heat yourself, and live with the consequences if you fail. Couture failed. He failed when he didnt manage to leave, when he couldnt fight Fedor.

Anderson Silva doesnt fail
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2009, 01:46 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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First, JB, I didn't mean, they were in cahoots about fighting a boring fight. I meant somehow they decided that Anderson "would" win. From Anderson's comments, he wanted to go five rounds proving he could do it. Leites basically gave him the five rounds, with little to none resistance, by continually falling to his back. If everything was on the up and up, I could see Leites trying this two maybe three times before giving it up and trying a different tactic to try and get Anderson to the ground. When they were on their feet, Leites did little to nothing to press the action to get something going, to possibly create an opening for himself. It's like both of them were just biding their time doing as little as possible to get through the five rounds. And Anderson's whole "I could care less" attitude after just makes me more suspicious of the whole thing. I'm not sure what either of them would have to gain by doing such a thing (especially Leites), but my gut is telling me something doesn't seem right here. Right or wrong that's my take.

And, Dave, I agree with you regarding Anderson "playing dumb" about English. You could clearly see when something was said that he understood because he was smiling that kind of "smirky" smile. Acting like he can't speak English well puts him in a perfect position to not have to speak for himself, and then, when people don't react well to what he "supposedly" says, his interpreter "conveniently" steps in and says he may have misquoted Anderson, yada, yada, yada... Like, you, Dave, I think Anderson is very clever.

I also don't think this has hurt Anderson one bit. He's still the champ, he still got a big payout, he made history with this fight, and he still has leverage with Dana because he is still the champ. He doesn't really seem to care what anybody thinks of this last fight or of him. So, I think he's pretty much sitting in the catbird seat right now.

I asked this ? before, but I don't think anyone answered. Even if Dana moved Anderson up to LHW, how would this change anything for middleweight? He's still the MW champ and he still needs a worthy opponent to really challenge him for the title. Plus, say Dana does bring/force him up to LHW and he wins , now he's holding two divisions at once which brings its own complications.

Anyone answer to the above ?/scenario, please.
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie
I asked this ? before, but I don't think anyone answered. Even if Dana moved Anderson up to LHW, how would this change anything for middleweight? He's still the MW champ and he still needs a worthy opponent to really challenge him for the title. Plus, say Dana does bring/force him up to LHW and he wins , now he's holding two divisions at once which brings its own complications.

Anyone answer to the above ?/scenario, please.
I dont think Dana is thinking of letting him fight for the LHW belt...I think Dana White believes that Anderson Silva is bored, and hopefully fighting bigger and heavier guys might be a passtime for him, and make it easier for him to defend his title when the time comes.
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  #14  
Old 04-27-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
I dont think Dana is thinking of letting him fight for the LHW belt...I think Dana White believes that Anderson Silva is bored, and hopefully fighting bigger and heavier guys might be a passtime for him, and make it easier for him to defend his title when the time comes.
This is what I pretty much gathered as well from Dana's comments. I do agree I think AS is possibly bored with the lack of competition in the MW division. There are some good fights for him at LHW that could push him to perform better or give him a challenge. I don't forsee Dana letting him fight for LHW title,but I would'nt put it past him(unless Lyota is champ).
How many fights does he have left on this contract? I'll be surprised to see what happens when it runs down and if AS still wants to retire.
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie
First, JB, I didn't mean, they were in cahoots about fighting a boring fight. I meant somehow they decided that Anderson "would" win. From Anderson's comments, he wanted to go five rounds proving he could do it. Leites basically gave him the five rounds, with little to none resistance, by continually falling to his back. If everything was on the up and up, I could see Leites trying this two maybe three times before giving it up and trying a different tactic to try and get Anderson to the ground. When they were on their feet, Leites did little to nothing to press the action to get something going, to possibly create an opening for himself. It's like both of them were just biding their time doing as little as possible to get through the five rounds. And Anderson's whole "I could care less" attitude after just makes me more suspicious of the whole thing. I'm not sure what either of them would have to gain by doing such a thing (especially Leites), but my gut is telling me something doesn't seem right here. Right or wrong that's my take.

And, Dave, I agree with you regarding Anderson "playing dumb" about English. You could clearly see when something was said that he understood because he was smiling that kind of "smirky" smile. Acting like he can't speak English well puts him in a perfect position to not have to speak for himself, and then, when people don't react well to what he "supposedly" says, his interpreter "conveniently" steps in and says he may have misquoted Anderson, yada, yada, yada... Like, you, Dave, I think Anderson is very clever.

I also don't think this has hurt Anderson one bit. He's still the champ, he still got a big payout, he made history with this fight, and he still has leverage with Dana because he is still the champ. He doesn't really seem to care what anybody thinks of this last fight or of him. So, I think he's pretty much sitting in the catbird seat right now.

I asked this ? before, but I don't think anyone answered. Even if Dana moved Anderson up to LHW, how would this change anything for middleweight? He's still the MW champ and he still needs a worthy opponent to really challenge him for the title. Plus, say Dana does bring/force him up to LHW and he wins , now he's holding two divisions at once which brings its own complications.

Anyone answer to the above ?/scenario, please.
Regardless of weather they would have been in cahoots to make the fight boring or for Anderson to win, that is called match fixing and it's highly illegal. They could both go to prison, and I honestly just do not think the risk is worth the reward in this case. Neither of them had anything to gain by doing that, and the whole thing is just a conspiracy theory.

This HAS hurt Silva. If you don't agree, just read around the interwebz, including this forum, and see how people are perceiving him now. Really, I totally understand what you and Dave are saying, but I completely disagree. This idea that he is just playing the fans for fools all to get back at the UFC, it's really a theory similar to a piece of Swiss Cheese, if you know what I'm saying.

If they permanently move him up to LHW, they would probably end up having an interm title-fight at MW.
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  #16  
Old 04-27-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
1) He's not the only one capable of being a smartarse

2) The UFC believe in contracts. Sure they could release him anytime, but dont forget dispite his recent poor showing, he has a great many fans, and for good reason. When he performs to his best, he really is truely worthy of being in the top spot of the UFC.

I never said he was not worthy of being in the UFC. I just said that IF they let him go, everybody would forget about it inside 6 months, and it would not change anything in the grand scheme.

You'd be suprised what a single man can do to an institution. Silva is playing with fire, if this theory is true, but he's also totally safe at present. He cant talk direct but through an interpretor with a camp that probably wants to play it down and safe a little bit. So he's not doing anything more then speak a purist line "I'm a counter striker, I had a game plan, I played it, dont blame me" BUT He's also putting the UFC in a difficult position. He knows that the more boring he is, the harder it will be for the UFC to keep hyping him up. There will come a point in time when they might have to cut him because he's no longer the draw. It would of course be an amicable split. Silva appologises for the type of fighter he is...but he is that type of fighter, The UFC appologise for cutting him because they know he's a good fighter but it doesnt sell.

I get your point, but it's still just makes little sense. Silva has NOTHING to gain by doing any of this. Just saying he is a "counter-striker" does not make it look okay on his side, as is obvious because of the negative attention he is STILL getting by fans like you. This idea of an "amicable split" is a fair suggestion, and I don't count it out, but I don't think it's going to come because of Silva playing any sort mind games with the UFC.

He leaves, he fights boxing...he gets it out of his system...he pleads to come back...they bring him back Penn style. Whilst he's gone the landscapes changed, Silva returns to wow the crowd and a second Title Reign awaits.

Thats the theory any way

Well, don't be so sure that if he went and fought boxing that he would "get it out of his system". If by some freak of nature he were to actually compete with and, dare I say it, beat Roy Jones Jr. , he would almost certainly be back in a boxing ring against some younger and fresher competition. Still, that is ridiculous because Roy Jones will whoop his ass anyway.


3) Well, Silva can adapt. We havent seen him fight someone else exciting to see if he really will just let himself lose, or he really will still just try and play it safe. Perhaps we'll see with Maia. I dont think he's "getting back" at the UFC...I think he just sees it as a means to an end...he's not angry, he just knows how to get what he wants.

Umm, what about all his other fights besides Leites and Cote? We have seen him fight some exciting fighters. The idea of Silva seeing this as a means to an end is plausible, but I still think it's a stretch. A REALLY big stretch.



Silva isnt completely getting the blame. Dana White still supports him even if embarissed, Patrick Miletich is supporting him, Other counter Strikers with great names are supporting him. His fans are still supporting him, You are still supporting him

Okay, Dana White should not even count because he changes what he says ALL THE TIME, and you know it. Regardless, there are SOME people supporting Silva in this, and yes I am one of them to a certain degree, but they are the minority. However, I will say that most people are not totally throwing Silva under the bus just yet.

and besides...the topic eventually gets boring...in two fights from now, we wont expect anything more from him, it wont be worth speaking about. Its not going to get much worse for him now, then this. He's weathered the storm, because he cant read half the negative press, and doesnt reply coz he cant speak the language...except...I think he might know more then he claims...He's fought in Cage Rage based in England, He's fought in the U.S for years...I think he knows a bit more then how to say "hello"...but yeah, he's playing dumb in that department...and it works for the purposes of "no comment" he's not expected to defend himself, except through an untrained, non professional interpretor, who can make him smell like roses

Again, that is all just speculation.

I'll not forget the look on his face at the post fight press conference when he sat back and smiled whilst Chuck Liddell became his mouth piece. He's not stupid. Infact he's extremely clever...if this succeeds, he might be the only fighter to have played the system at its own game at his level.

Again.... total speculation. If anything, I think you are reading WAY to deep into all of this.

4) and look at Couture now. Look where it got him. The fans are no longer vocal about his ordeal at the hands of an evil institution. He was forced to come back tail between his legs, forced to fight with the obvious result he'd probably lose, he's not really "in" with the management anymore, and he's so old noone is going to give him a second chance.

Yeah...Couture was in the Army, He's playing it in the light, which works FOR A WHILE if you're prepared to take the heat yourself, and live with the consequences if you fail. Couture failed. He failed when he didnt manage to leave, when he couldnt fight Fedor.

Anderson Silva doesnt fail

Obviously Anderson Silva does fail, because he failed to please the fans and now look at all the controversy surrounding him. Either way, you still missed my point that if Silva had real problems with the company and wanted to get out, he would be better served by going public with those feelings rather than put on some elaborate charade that dumps almost all of the negative attention right at his own feet.

I don't know who Silva's agent is, but any competent sports agent in America would not tell their athlete to bring negative press on themselves in order to get out of a situation or to try and put leverage on the company or franchise they work for. It just don't work like that.

However, IF Silva is upset with the company and trying to create leverage for some ulterior motive, then he is failing big time. He looks like the bad guy here, not the UFC, and if this IS really about the Roy Jones fight, he would not be helping his cause by making himself look bad.
Answers in bold my friend

Last edited by J.B.; 04-27-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Answers in bold my friend
1) It changes everything for Anderson. It allows him to have the best of all worlds. MMA, Boxing, a return to MMA, and still with a few fans.

2) It benefits Anderson, he wants to go an box that other guy dont he By saying he's a counter striker, he's just making it a non issue, as far as he's concerned, what more do we want from him He's playing mind games with EVERYONE

3) well thats for him to decide. the point is, if the split is amicable he can come back...if he takes the UFC to court and wins...they wont let him change his mind when he gets smushed in boxing and wants to come home

4) We'll just have to wait and see what he does when presented with someone more challenging and more of a threat

5)Fans can be gained and lost at no expsense when you can fight like he can. When he comes back to the UFC after boxing, he only needs to wow the crowd once, and have his interpreter say the appropriate word...and they'll flock to him. He's playing the fairweather fans like they are strings.

People like me, I guess he doesnt care, sinse he never really had us in the first place. He's pressurizing the management, and he's also conning his supporters, by keeping stum, they hold the fort while he slips out the back. If they dig a hole, they'll end up in it...not him...he's not said a word

6) In some ways I admire the ease with which he is playing the system, all of it, the fans, the management, the supporters.

7) The lesser of two evils. If he comes out and plays in the light he brings negative press. If he apparently, and seemingly does nothing, he doesnt get quite as much because he leaves people guessing...but he sure does draw attention to himself. Its called publicitiy...my goodness the mans thought this through

Either way he's going to have negative press, but this way its all one step removed. All he has to do is keep quiet, and keep putting on bad performances, just keep saying the same thing "im a counter striker, I follow my game plan, dont blame me" and noone can get evidence of the contrary...or at least there is no proof that he's playing the system at all...he gets away with it.

Meanwhile, people like you carry his burden of bad press. Do you follow? Silva isnt sticking up for himself, he isnt involved. He has no control over you, but your fulfilling a MAJOR part of his gameplan right now...you and Chuck Liddell, and Patrick Miletich

The point is he's in complete control. at anytime he could snap into wowing the crowd, at any time he could undo the damage he's done, at any time he could buy his way into boxing, and buy his way back into MMA....GOD help him if he really comes up against someone he cant handle though....THAT would be his undoing....Ultimately he has pride in his skills and performance if he tries, to get him where ever he wants to go...its worked so far.

It got him from cagerage to pride, from pride to the UFC, fast tracked to the title, kept him the title, the lack of which is forcing the hands of the management, and at anytime it could undo all he's done, it could buy him into his boxing, and buy him back into MMA

But Pride comes before a fall. IF he should fall, if he should fall when he TRIES...then he's scuppered.

For example, if he REALLY goes to town on Maia and loses...He's just fried himself BIG TIME. He's playing with fire...In one way I hope he's successful just for the sheer brilliance of doing it. For the sheer brilliance of seeing his gameplan take him wherever he desires...but...if he fails...if his Pride pushes him over the edge, he'll fall faster the Lucifer, and there will be no saving him. The fans will really hate him, the management will string him up, the boxing world wont want him...and he'll realize his skills cant get him where he needs...he'll see he just isnt that good....it would probably push him into premature retirement.

He's gambling with his life.


That is if this theory is true.
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn
That is if this theory is true.
Exactly, and I don't think it is.

It was a boring fight, nothing more, nothing less.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Denise was the first person to suggest that Anderson Silva is doing it to try and be released from the UFC...that he knows what he's doing.

Career suicide is fine if there is no real competition for you, and you'd rather fight other places...but you cant get out without some kinda woe bad enough to make the UFC want to drop you.

I tend to think this might be correct, because I'm convinced he could have done better...I just dont know if he actually would go so far...but he must have had some motivation...and I cant see any other motive for deliberately giving such a bad set of performances.

This writer stole Denise Idea
He did!!


btw, I think it is awesome that Silva is dupping ole Dana this way.
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake
Exactly, and I don't think it is.

It was a boring fight, nothing more, nothing less.
Silva has pulled the wool over your eyes
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