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  #11  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:55 PM
Miss Foxy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke
well, hopefully your daughter can prove you wrong when she becomes the POTUS .......
She wants to be a US MARINE.. hahah!!
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:58 PM
rearnakedchoke
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Originally Posted by Melissa Villaseņor
She wants to be a US MARINE.. hahah!!
WHAT? Women are allowed in the marines? they can barely take care of themselves let alone protect a country ...
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2009, 07:59 PM
Crisco
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Originally Posted by Melissa Villaseņor
I personally don't favor it. I am also the same girl that does not think a woman should ever be President of the USA. I cannot fully explain why I think this way I just do.
lol that's cuz you are a woman and know that every month for about 3-4 days we'll have nuclear was with a woman President.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2009, 08:13 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris F
The bible actually list female deaconesses and female leaders of the church. So to ignore it would be unbiblical.
Are you sure those were deaconesses or leaders? They might have just been very prominent members or hostesses, since the church services took place in houses back in those days:

1 Corinthians 16:19b (emphasis added)
Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2009, 08:31 PM
Primadawn
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I grew up Baptist and still am...have always been taught and believe that women should not be pastors or deacons.

And yes the verse about being the husband of one wife is used and we don't have single/divorced pastors or deacons either.

I do believe women can teach and mentor other women and children. I do not believe they should be in a leadership position over men in the church.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
What does everyone think about women being elders or pastors in the church?
Let me tell you about Canon Lucy Winkett, Precentor of Saint Paul's Cathedral.





Type her name into Google...and she will pop up! She be infamous in these parts. Professional Singer, Lucy became a Priest shortly after her Husband-to-be was killed in a climbing accident. NOONE Sings like Lucy Winkett. I have NEVER, EVER heard such a voice singing the Office of Evensong. When I was invited down for my day of interviews for the position, I was required to attend Evensong. I wasnt to meet her until After, so I had no idea who she was when I heard her Sing. Sadly, when she became a Canon, she didnt sing the office, unless on special occasions when a Minor Canon was laid out, and she filled in. We ALL lived for such experiences.

having worked in Saint Paul's Cathedral I can tell you a few things about Women in Ministry. The Founder of The Saint Paul's Cathedral Lay Community is Rev Lucy Winkett, Canon Precentor. She was the first woman to work in Saint Paul's as a Priest, and she arrived the year they filmed "A year in the Life of Saint Paul's" one out of four episodes were Dedicated to Women in Ministry.

The Video shows Canon Winkett (She wasnt a Canon at the time, but a Minor Canon) Celebrating her First Eucharist. As usual the Procession would come in, and the Eucharist would Start. Half way through the Service, the Priests, one by one, would get up (whilst she was celebrating) and walk out of the Building. The first time she did it, the whole of Chapter (Four Male Priests) plus the Dean, Plus the College of Minor Canons (A further two Male Priests) left the Building.

The Servers refused to receive Communion from her. They had her in tears at the end of the service. This became a weekly occasion on a Sunday Morning, and during the week when she Celebrated noone would bother to show up!

One by one, those Priests who had life Tenure began to wane...some retired, some actually died. By the Time I arrived, nearly a decade after women were first Ordained Priest, and Five years after what I've outlined above...the only person who had a problem with Women in Ministry, was the Director of the Lay Community at that time, Canon Martin Warner. Whilst he wouldnt be so rude as to walk out, he wouldnt receive, nor would he distribute if she had consecrated...he sat alone on the dais, looking like a prick, if you excuse my language.

There are things Women can bring to the priesthood that men cant. There is a sense of emotional understanding, which makes for an excelent pastral care, which by their very nature, Women can offer better then Men. Women tend to be better when it comes to music also. It was no Accident that Whilst a Minor Canon, Lucy was "Chaplain" and when a member of Chapter she was "Precentor" A Precentor is incharge specifically of the music and spiritual expression of the worship that goes on.

By the time I left...there was Lucy on Chapter, and two of the Three Minor Canons were FEMALE aswell. One of the Lay Canons was also Female. This meant out of EIGHT Chapter Members TWO were Women, and out of THREE Minor Canons, TWO were Women...that would have been unthinkable to some of the Priests less then 10 years before hand.



I think there are enough examples in both Testaments to prove Women can be Ministers.

Look at the first Judge of Israel who is able to be a Military Leader, a Political Leader AND a Spiritual Leader combined. It was the first time a single leader had fulfilled all three roles. If GOD sees fit to make the first Model Judge of Israel a Woman...then who are we to complain.

When thinking about Prophets, there is Esther...and in the New Testament Saint Paul mentions several Women he writes to with leadership positions in the Church.

Ask yourself WHO Jesus appeared to FIRST post-ressrection...was it not a Woman

However...the majority of Christondom doesnt support Women in Ministry. The Church of England only adopted Women in Ministry for as long as the UFC has been around. It doesnt allow Women Bishops. The Roman Catholics wont allow Women. Period.
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  #17  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:53 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Talking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEJ6HhjjvLU

TYPICAL Winkett. She is ever-so-slightly millitant on such matters...but its to be expected...she is a pioneer in the field of Women in Ministry in the Church of England...

IF Women ever become Bishops in England...guess who would be the first choice

I think Nathan Rosario will hate her hahahahahahahaa But I Love her...When I was Falsley accused in the Cathedral, she was the only member of Chapter who ACTIVELY supported me. Two remained neutral, One pretended there was nothing wrong to deny the issue...and the other was my arch nemesis. Canon Martin Warner LOL
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:00 PM
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NateR NateR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn
Let me tell you about Canon Lucy Winkett, Precentor of Saint Paul's Cathedral.





Type her name into Google...and she will pop up! She be infamous in these parts. Professional Singer, Lucy became a Priest shortly after her Husband-to-be was killed in a climbing accident. NOONE Sings like Lucy Winkett. I have NEVER, EVER heard such a voice singing the Office of Evensong. When I was invited down for my day of interviews for the position, I was required to attend Evensong. I wasnt to meet her until After, so I had no idea who she was when I heard her Sing. Sadly, when she became a Canon, she didnt sing the office, unless on special occasions when a Minor Canon was laid out, and she filled in. We ALL lived for such experiences.

having worked in Saint Paul's Cathedral I can tell you a few things about Women in Ministry. The Founder of The Saint Paul's Cathedral Lay Community is Rev Lucy Winkett, Canon Precentor. She was the first woman to work in Saint Paul's as a Priest, and she arrived the year they filmed "A year in the Life of Saint Paul's" one out of four episodes were Dedicated to Women in Ministry.

The Video shows Canon Winkett (She wasnt a Canon at the time, but a Minor Canon) Celebrating her First Eucharist. As usual the Procession would come in, and the Eucharist would Start. Half way through the Service, the Priests, one by one, would get up (whilst she was celebrating) and walk out of the Building. The first time she did it, the whole of Chapter (Four Male Priests) plus the Dean, Plus the College of Minor Canons (A further two Male Priests) left the Building.

The Servers refused to receive Communion from her. They had her in tears at the end of the service. This became a weekly occasion on a Sunday Morning, and during the week when she Celebrated noone would bother to show up!

One by one, those Priests who had life Tenure began to wane...some retired, some actually died. By the Time I arrived, nearly a decade after women were first Ordained Priest, and Five years after what I've outlined above...the only person who had a problem with Women in Ministry, was the Director of the Lay Community at that time, Canon Martin Warner. Whilst he wouldnt be so rude as to walk out, he wouldnt receive, nor would he distribute if she had consecrated...he sat alone on the dais, looking like a prick, if you excuse my language.

There are things Women can bring to the priesthood that men cant. There is a sense of emotional understanding, which makes for an excelent pastral care, which by their very nature, Women can offer better then Men. Women tend to be better when it comes to music also. It was no Accident that Whilst a Minor Canon, Lucy was "Chaplain" and when a member of Chapter she was "Precentor" A Precentor is incharge specifically of the music and spiritual expression of the worship that goes on.

By the time I left...there was Lucy on Chapter, and two of the Three Minor Canons were FEMALE aswell. One of the Lay Canons was also Female. This meant out of EIGHT Chapter Members TWO were Women, and out of THREE Minor Canons, TWO were Women...that would have been unthinkable to some of the Priests less then 10 years before hand.



I think there are enough examples in both Testaments to prove Women can be Ministers.

Look at the first Judge of Israel who is able to be a Military Leader, a Political Leader AND a Spiritual Leader combined. It was the first time a single leader had fulfilled all three roles. If GOD sees fit to make the first Model Judge of Israel a Woman...then who are we to complain.

When thinking about Prophets, there is Esther...and in the New Testament Saint Paul mentions several Women he writes to with leadership positions in the Church.

Ask yourself WHO Jesus appeared to FIRST post-ressrection...was it not a Woman

However...the majority of Christondom doesnt support Women in Ministry. The Church of England only adopted Women in Ministry for as long as the UFC has been around. It doesnt allow Women Bishops. The Roman Catholics wont allow Women. Period.
This hardly proves anything, Dave. I'm more interested in what the Bible says, not in how some Catholic lady sings.
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  #19  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:07 PM
Chris F
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
In the Baptist churches I grew up in, single or divorced men weren't allowed to be deacons or pastors.
Exactly your church, not the bible. We must be careful making church dogmas and traditions doctrines of the church. my personal opinion is the Baptist have it right. God plan of authority is for a man to lead. But my personal thoughts carry no weight.
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  #20  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:09 PM
Chris F
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR
Are you sure those were deaconesses or leaders? They might have just been very prominent members or hostesses, since the church services took place in houses back in those days:

1 Corinthians 16:19b (emphasis added)
Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.
Junia was listed as a deaconess. The Alexandrian manuscripts later changed the gender on it but the oldest manuscripts we got shows this is a female.
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