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Old 04-10-2009, 07:28 PM
warriorlion
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What should a person do if they do not respect the pastor???
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:32 PM
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I think it depends on what you are talking about. However, the easiest answer would be to find another church.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:42 PM
mikthehick
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Agree with Nate, find another church.

As a kid attending a Missouri Synod Lutheran church in Jacksonville, NC (Calvary Lutheran off highway 24--Marine Blvd), the Pastor that started there in the fall of 1990 was found to be verbally abusive to kids, put down others in public meetings, and ended up almost bankrupting the church. My mom took my brother and I to another closeby ELCA Lutheran church. We attended the new church until the dad's got back from overseas and forcibly removed the bad pastor. It took a couple years but the church got on its feet again with a good pastor and leadership.

It's a shame, but not all pastors are men seeking the Lord.
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:54 PM
Miss Foxy
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I would suggest getting a new church..Without respect you got nothing and you really don't want to have unhappy or other distracting thoughts while you are trying to worship. Good luck with everything.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorlion
What should a person do if they do not respect the pastor???
Stop receiveing communion from him at the very least.

Thats the first thing I did at Saint Paul's with Canon Warner. He got the message loud and clear, because He wont receive communion from Women Priests. He doesnt believe they actually are Priests, so he doesnt believe that GOD ordains them the power to consecrate the Host...therefore he doesnt receive (others, more strongly, have been known to get up and walk out in response)

So when I refused to recieve from Him, I was telling Him, that in my eyes, I could no longer consider Him a Priest. Therefore, I didnt see him as being able to consecrate the Host, therefore I didnt receive it from Him.

In early days I wouldnt even get up or participate. (in later days when I was learning to forgive him...I went up for a Blessing) When things got worse I made changes to the Rota so I didnt have to Serve for Him at Communion.

I told everyone what he had done.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:12 PM
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Well..and it depends WHY you don't respect him. Is it something that he's doing that is contrary to biblical doctrine? Or more of a personality conflict?
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:54 AM
warriorlion
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Ok let me clarify this question.

Over a fair while there has been a lot of unrest in our church, I guess it started back when the Florida revival kicked off, at church we were experiencing a real move of God, I know I felt His tangible presence in the place, and really felt like God was about to do something.

During this time our pastor was on vacation, and the church was being run by the elders. When the Pastor returned, it jst so happened to be about the same time that Todd Betley stepped down from ministry, and the pastor tried to install a ministry team. Now I am not saying that this was his motives, but a number of people felt that the pastor was trying to control what was happening, and suddenly the 'move' of God we were experiencing suddenly stopped.

Now as time has passed along, there have been more and more things that have started to weigh me down.

I dont want to start a pastor bashing here, I dont think thats the right thing to do here, however I need to seek some direction and clarity on this issue.

Basically the man that heads up the church is really an evangelist rather than a pastor in the literal sense, he is not really a people person and really does not think before opening his mouth.

Recently I have had a number of people come to ask me about things that have been preached from the pulpit, things like we are kings of the kingdom, people have been asking me where it says that in the bible.

I am becoming increasingly unconfident that the things being preached from the front are not entirely doctrinal, although I dont claim to know everything and I am open to someone showing me where and if it says that we are kings in the kingdom of God.

The last straw was sunday when I got pulled to one side, and told that chewing gum was disrepectful to God, and that I obviously was not worshiping because I was not singing.

Now you need to understand that I have recently started playing bass for the service, and more than half the songs that we use in worship I have not ever actually played before and the ones I do know, I have learned previously in a different key.

Now this situation has really annoyed me, not because I was asked not to chew, thats not the point, I understand that completely, its the accusation that I can not be worshiping as I am not singing and that I am disrespecting God. Especially as the church has a worship leader that is constantly late, never shows any respect for anyone else in the worship team, and it gets laughed off by leadership and never comfronted.

These are just a few of the things that have come to the surface, and tahts just a few of the things that I personally have experienced, I could go on and on about the things that have brought me to this point.

Currently I run on of the youth groups and am on team for worshi[p as well as a drop in centre which has seen 21 young people make commitments to God. And this is why I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, with everything that has been going on I dont respect the man that runs the church, I feel like I am in God's will right now in the church, the church numbers are dropping, but I love the minitsries that I am involved with, but is that really enough to stay somewhere that I am not growing, that my wife does not want to go to, and more than half th congregation have issues with, and nothig seems to have changed with these issues since I started going to the church 2 years ago.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorlion
Ok let me clarify this question.

Over a fair while there has been a lot of unrest in our church, I guess it started back when the Florida revival kicked off, at church we were experiencing a real move of God, I know I felt His tangible presence in the place, and really felt like God was about to do something.

During this time our pastor was on vacation, and the church was being run by the elders. When the Pastor returned, it jst so happened to be about the same time that Todd Betley stepped down from ministry, and the pastor tried to install a ministry team. Now I am not saying that this was his motives, but a number of people felt that the pastor was trying to control what was happening, and suddenly the 'move' of God we were experiencing suddenly stopped.

Now as time has passed along, there have been more and more things that have started to weigh me down.

I dont want to start a pastor bashing here, I dont think thats the right thing to do here, however I need to seek some direction and clarity on this issue.

Basically the man that heads up the church is really an evangelist rather than a pastor in the literal sense, he is not really a people person and really does not think before opening his mouth.

Recently I have had a number of people come to ask me about things that have been preached from the pulpit, things like we are kings of the kingdom, people have been asking me where it says that in the bible.

I am becoming increasingly unconfident that the things being preached from the front are not entirely doctrinal, although I dont claim to know everything and I am open to someone showing me where and if it says that we are kings in the kingdom of God.

The last straw was sunday when I got pulled to one side, and told that chewing gum was disrepectful to God, and that I obviously was not worshiping because I was not singing.

Now you need to understand that I have recently started playing bass for the service, and more than half the songs that we use in worship I have not ever actually played before and the ones I do know, I have learned previously in a different key.

Now this situation has really annoyed me, not because I was asked not to chew, thats not the point, I understand that completely, its the accusation that I can not be worshiping as I am not singing and that I am disrespecting God. Especially as the church has a worship leader that is constantly late, never shows any respect for anyone else in the worship team, and it gets laughed off by leadership and never comfronted.

These are just a few of the things that have come to the surface, and tahts just a few of the things that I personally have experienced, I could go on and on about the things that have brought me to this point.

Currently I run on of the youth groups and am on team for worshi[p as well as a drop in centre which has seen 21 young people make commitments to God. And this is why I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, with everything that has been going on I dont respect the man that runs the church, I feel like I am in God's will right now in the church, the church numbers are dropping, but I love the minitsries that I am involved with, but is that really enough to stay somewhere that I am not growing, that my wife does not want to go to, and more than half th congregation have issues with, and nothig seems to have changed with these issues since I started going to the church 2 years ago.
It is my understanding that after death we are made Perfect, it is also my understanding that we are Heirs with Christ...if you believe that all of GODs Glory is shared with Christ, then its a frighteningly logical assumption to say that after Death we will be in His Full Glory aswell.

Paul somewhere mentions us being incharge of Angelic Host after Death, so we do know that we have leadership roles in The Kingdom.

I dont think it goes as far to say "Kings" but...we are Children of GOD, and we will be in full Union with Him and made Perfect by Him. Doesnt your pastor use quotes from Scriptures to support what he says so you can read the quotes and judge for yourself...Have you asked Him for them...Have you asked him to clearly define to you what he means?? Its not uncomon for congregation members to talk to the Priests afterwards about what they said.

If you dont seem threatening, He will probably give you the scriptures he's working from...then you can judge if He's stretching them. If He is...then it depends on how much the Church means to you (that particular Church) as to whether you leave...or...get a band of people to kinda confront him.


As for the Chewing Gum thing...well It depends what style of service your Church decides to impliment. If its Formal...then, no you shouldnt be chewing gum, like you shouldnt have scuffed shoes, or be wearing a shellsuit or something. If its informal, then it doesnt matter...most Church Choirs will have uniforms, so I dont see why members of a worship band shouldnt be smartly dressed


as for the singing bit...just move your mouth whilst your playing...and they will never know. I think that its stupid to say that if your play an insturment you MUST sing, because sometimes to get the notes right takes concentration...you might not even be playing the same tune your singing!
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