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  #31  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rockdawg21
He appointed a homosexual? That's gay.
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie
I'm torn on the whole "born" vs. "choice".
I've heard good philosophical arguments on both sides of that issue, but very little hard scientific evidence to prove one side or the other.

My point is that it doesn't matter. Some people are born with the "alcoholism gene" does that mean it's okay for them to waste their lives away in a bar and drive under the influence? Some people are born with schizophrenia, does that means that they should be proud of their "alternative lifestyle" and embrace their delusions? Probably not, since that's not fair to the people who are forced to take care of them.

Other people are even born predisposed to have cancer, does that mean they should embrace their cancer and be proud of it? And if you accept them, then you MUST accept their cancer as part of them? I would hope not.

People are born with all kinds of genetic defects and neurological disorders, it makes sense that homosexuality would just be one of those.
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by matthughesfan21
The only theory they really have to prove it is gentic, because in the case of the early baby sexchange due to a botched circumcision..the now girl was less than a year old and raised as a female, they treated her as one and gave her all the things a normal girl would have, even throughout like the late elementary school age, she was unhappy and kept trying to tell her mother that she didnt feel like a normal girl, they started giving her estrogen pills right around the time of puberty, but nothing changed...This lasted well into her teenage years, the whole time very unhappy and starting to rebel against her female image...Finally around the time she was 15, her mother finally told her the truth because of how depressed she was, when she found out, she later turned herself back into a male through another sex change, but due to the screwed up childhood, he later killed himself
I think I saw this story on one of the news shows like 20/20. In this particular case, that doctor, to me, who told the parents that it would be best to just change the boy and give him female genetalia and raise him as a girl was a total qwack. I think he saw his chance to do some "research" and used this poor child as a guinea pig with ultimately tragic results for the child.

The only way I see environment playing a part in a child growing up to be gay is what we see happening now. Our children being "taught" in school and in society by those with the "gay" agenda who want everyone to believe that this IS normal just an alternative lifestyle. You see it with the books they are bringing in to schools, the shows/movies showing same gender "partners" in bed, songs like "I Kissed a Girl..." and now the states are saying with "laws" basically "there's nothing wrong with this" again usurping God's law with man's.

Even if some people are "born" with something inside them that predisposes them to be gay, it still is not normal.

For me, if God had made it clear that there would be those born in such a way and it was not a sin for those "born" this way to live that life, I'd say so be it because God says it is so. But, God clearly states in the Bible that this is sinful. God made man, then he made woman to be with man.
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  #34  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie
I think I saw this story on one of the news shows like 20/20. In this particular case, that doctor, to me, who told the parents that it would be best to just change the boy and give him female genetalia and raise him as a girl was a total qwack. I think he saw his chance to do some "research" and used this poor child as a guinea pig with ultimately tragic results for the child..
absolutely, but the thing is, he was selective in what he published, he cheated the science community into thinking it was successful because all he printed was the positives which were few and far between, he refused to tell anybody what all the negatives were, during the period of late childhood when the child was having extreme difficulties with her image, he didn't publish anything at all, this lack of details just led the science community to believe everything was going good until the man's story finally came out many years later
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  #35  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR
Of course it does, which is why we need to be educated and very selective about who's opinions we regard as "truth." Some people are just so intent on proving that homosexuals are born gay, that they'll post links to an internet article written by someone they've never even met and try to use that as empirical scientific evidence.
I agree completely, but what I'm saying is this doctor provided extensive studies on the size of the hypothalamus. His research was focused around whether someone has it ingrained in them that they are male or female, as a side study he also looked into homosexuals and people of straight sexual orientation, and he noticed significant differences in the hypothalamus.....I'm not trying to argue that homosexuality is ok, because its not imo, and I'm not trying to say for a fact that it is born into someone, all I am doing is presenting some research to help add to the debate
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  #36  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike
I've known young kids who showed homosexual traits.
But what do you define as "homosexual traits?" That seems to be a very subjective term.
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  #37  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by matthughesfan21
I agree completely, but what I'm saying is this doctor provided extensive studies on the size of the hypothalamus. His research was focused around whether someone has it ingrained in them that they are male or female, as a side study he also looked into homosexuals and people of straight sexual orientation, and he noticed significant differences in the hypothalamus.....I'm not trying to argue that homosexuality is ok, because its not imo, and I'm not trying to say for a fact that it is born into someone, all I am doing is presenting some research to help add to the debate
With our current understanding of the human body, we don't really know of the size of the hypothalamus is a genetically inherited trait or a product of upbringing.
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  #38  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by NateR
I've heard good philosophical arguments on both sides of that issue, but very little hard scientific evidence to prove one side or the other.

My point is that it doesn't matter. Some people are born with the "alcoholism gene" does that mean it's okay for them to waste their lives away in a bar and drive under the influence? Some people are born with schizophrenia, does that means that they should be proud of their "alternative lifestyle" and embrace their delusions? Probably not, since that's not fair to the people who are forced to take care of them.

Other people are even born predisposed to have cancer, does that mean they should embrace their cancer and be proud of it? And if you accept them, then you MUST accept their cancer as part of them? I would hope not.

People are born with all kinds of genetic defects and neurological disorders, it makes sense that homosexuality would just be one of those.
I agree with you Nate. People born with all of these terrible things and/or predisposed to certain diseases have a hard road to follow. And, of course, we shouldn't embrace their choice to live sinfully against God's word.

I (and I speak solely for myself no one else) don't know why some people are born with such burdens and others are not. God tells us there are things we are not going to understand, and by that, I take it to mean He doesn't want us to understand or else it would be so.

My heart goes out to anyone born with some awful condition/disease, or due to some misfortune in life, ends up struggling with a physical or mental handicap. I don't know if there IS such a thing as being born gay. It doesn't really matter 'cause in the end you have to choose which path you're going to walk.

Last edited by Bonnie; 04-08-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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  #39  
Old 04-08-2009, 04:52 PM
matthughesfan21
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Originally Posted by NateR
With our current understanding of the human body, we don't really know of the size of the hypothalamus is a genetically inherited trait or a product of upbringing.
thats very true, and it will be almost impossible to tell unless new technology comes about, in order to find these differences it took years of splicing and searching on the human brain...chances are no one is willing to or should sacrifice their child for the sake of science, that would be just disgusting...all I'm saying with this is, its at least something to consider when discussing this topic
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  #40  
Old 04-08-2009, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR
That's just a lot of theories and guesswork. No real evidence.
No, you just are discounting the evidence presented. If you had actually read through the link, you would have seen the evidence and how some of the conclusions were made.

Do you hold your religion to the same standard? Just a lot of theories and guesswork in it, no hard evidence yet you accept it as fact.

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Originally Posted by NateR
Actually, I understand true science well enough recognize when they have no real evidence and are just using the pseudo-scientific tactic known as an "argument of authority." In other words, they can't prove their claim, but they hope that their credentials and/or status within the scientific community will get people to believe them.

I'm not calling people who claim to be born gay liars, I'm just saying that there is no way that even they can know that. Most people's memories don't go back that far.
I don't think you do understand true science well enough. If you held your religious beliefs to the same standard as you hold this, you would probably come to the same conclusions of the non-believers. Yet, you don't hold your religious to the same standards. I find that to be a bit hypocritical.
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