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Originally Posted by Chuck
1. I get that from you JB and I respect that. In all of our talks/debates about sports, boxing, Super Bowl etc you have always been respectful and you always bring up intelligent points. So I guess I just wanted to say thanks for being somebody who can have a good discussion and not just post abunch of bias crap. Derek is another guy that I love talking sports with on here btw 
2. Obviously you aren't including off the court incidents or Kobe wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as LeBron. As far as on the court.. I disagree. When you talk Kobe you hear things like selfish, ball hog, prima donna etc.. I don't think he makes the people around him better at all. I think most people who get traded from the Lakers are relived to be away from him. Now I will give you this much.. I haven't followed him in about 2 years so it's certainly possible he's grown up and matured... but the Kobe I remember was a lot of things.... but a leader wasn't one of them .
3. I think Championships are a horrible litmus test on greatness. If we go by that then obviously Steve Kerr is a much, much better player then Stockton. Big Ben would be better then Marino etc... Championships are important no doubt but they can't be the determining factor in my opinion. IF how long it takes to win them means nothing then we can't even use that as criteria until both players are retired.
4. "decent" maybe... but nobody, absolutely nobody even close to Shaq, Pippen, Rodman or Fisher.
5. Failing in the playoffs is exactly what the Lakers and Kobe have done every single year since Shaq left. How many rings has he won without Shaq?
6. I do think LeBron is awesome and he is the only player I see or have seen that has a chance at becoming as great or nearly as great as MJ. |
1. I love talking sports with Derek too, he is great, even though he is a Cubs fan.
2. You are right. I am not talking about off the court stuff, because that has nothing to do with my point. As for Kobe being labeled a "ball hog" or "prima donna", that is just haters hating. They said the same crap about Jordan, and they say it about LeBron from time to time too. Sometimes you need to be a ball hog in the NBA. Thats just how it is. Having won multiple championships and being the top player in the league gives you INSTANT respect. Kobe Bryant has that edge simply because of how good he is and what he has accomplished. I don't doubt that LeBron can surpass Kobe, by all accounts he definitely SHOULD. However, for today, Kobe is still the man. Ya know, Jordan scorned his teammates when they did not play well, and then they got with the program and started winning championships. Kobe has done the same, but gotten flack for it. Here is an article from ESPN you should like. It basically says that people think Kobe is the better player, but LeBron is a better leader.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...ble-KobeLeBron
3. Championships ARE the litmus test in the NBA. We are not talking football, that is different. Basketball is much easier to win a championship than football, and teams can succeed with only 1 or 2 star players, although that is happening less and less nowadays. Sure, there are tons of great players who did not win championships in the NBA, but that was called the "Jordan Era". Thats why MJ is better than anybody else. I understand your logic, but when we think of great teams and dynasties in the NBA their success is always attributed almost solely to 1 or 2, maybe 3 STAR players. Of course Basketball IS a team sport, but their are many skill levels in between riding the bench and being on billboards. It's not a black and white issue. Sure, Steve Kerr was a great 3 point shooter, but he was NEVER a successful team leader or major star. John Stockton would have gotten his rings, but Jordan said NO. Steve Kerr needed Jordan. See where I am going?
Also, for the record, Steve Kerr sucks as a general manager and I don't think I can forgive him for ruining the Phoenix Suns.
4. You may be right in the sense that nobody on the Cavs matches up in skill level to those individual stars, but it's a moot point. The league has changed a lot in the last 10 years, even the last 5. The level of competition in the Western Conference is CRAZY, and in the post Jordan era we are seeing that dynasties can't be built as easily. On any given night, almost any team can win. So any team that is consistently making the playoffs and even going as deep as the finals has to have a GOOD roster.
5. You are exactly right. The Lakers have failed to win a Championship since Shaq left. Still, last time I checked, winning three championships is still more than winning zero championships, which is what LeBron has won.
6. At the Forward position, James is not ever going to be able to achieve the status that Jordan did. This is total speculation at this point, but I can see that the older he gets, the less prolific his scoring is going to be, and as the competition gets fiercer LeBron will not be as much of a threat unless he gets into system with 2 major stars, with at least one being a point guard. If I had to pick a favorite "young" player right now, I would pick Dwayne Wade, but that's just me.
Damn, I type a lot...
04-08-2009, 04:05 AM
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