Iowa Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage

[Vizion]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

Well, i am sure when they ended segregation and slavery, most people were opposed to it also ... so don't get your point ...

Apples and oranges...

[Vizion]

Originally Posted by NateR

I would agree with that. Until 1973, Homosexuality was listed as a mental illness. It was removed from the medical textbooks for purely political and idealistic reasons. There is no scientific evidence, that I'm aware of, that states homosexuality is anything but a mental disorder.

Statisically I once read that 50% of gay men were molested as children, and 80% of gay women were. I don't know where I read that for sure but I think it was in a book entitled "the Unhappy Gays"...(the book was written sometime in the 70's if I recall)...

And yes, it used to be listed as a mental illness, almost all pyschologists agreed, it was standard textbook material. Now, in our sinful and proud world, homosexuality has transcended the deviant subculture and gone mainstream. Sex is a strong addiction, some people fall into ssa (same sex attraction) because they want sex and can't get it from attractive members of the opposite sex often enough, or ever.

Originally Posted by NateR

Untrue, the Civil Rights movement was actually extremely popular at the time and was only heavily resisted in the southern states. Primarily by southern Democrats.

Plus, Civil Rights (like the Abolitionist Movement) was a largely Christian movement (Martin Luther King Jr. was a Reverend after all) and was supported by many churches in the north.

Finally, nobody can contest that blacks are a race that people are born into. Two black parents will produce black children, that's the way race works. However, we've had no accounts of two gay parents naturally producing gay offspring. Simply because gay parents can't naturally reproduce.

So, trying to compare Gay Rights to the Civil Rights movement is really just a distortion of the facts. A black person can't choose to not be black (Michael Jackson doesn't count), however homosexuals can be successfully rescued from that lifestyle. There are plenty of Christian organizations that do just that and are very successful at it.

i am not comparing race to being homosexual, i was saying that in some states where segregation was being abolished, there were a majority of people that didn't agree with it ...

and imo i do think that there is a homosexual "gene", now this is my opinion and i am probably going to get some hate for it .. but i believe in natural selection and the "strong" survive ... you say that homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, however, i believe that since being gay was such a stigma for years, gays were getting married to avoid persecution .. thus spreading the gene .. i actually think that you would have seen a reduction in homosexuals ... but now with invitro fertilization, homosexuals are having their genes passed down ... sounds kinda messed up, but that is what i think ...

Originally Posted by NateR

Born homosexual? That's yet to be proven.

It also hasn't been dis-proven.

Born sinful? Definitely. So the point is moot.

That too has yet to be proven.

The Bible tells us that ALL people are born sinful and corrupted and that we can NEVER make ourselves worthy of GOD's salvation. That's why Jesus needed to come to Earth, born of a virgin, to break the curse of sin and give humankind a chance for salvation.

While it may state that in the bible, the bible was written by fallible men and used to control mankind and to set an agenda. There are many many parts of the original bible that were omitted throughout the many rewritings and translations of it. The bible uses many stories from many different cultures. There is no proof the the bible is the word of god.

Actually marriage was created by GOD, as documented in Genesis chapter 2. So it existed alongside the first two humans.

Absolutely no proof of this.

Finally, nobody can contest that blacks are a race that people are born into. Two black parents will produce black children, that's the way race works. However, we've had no accounts of two gay parents naturally producing gay offspring. Simply because gay parents can't naturally reproduce.

Completely false. If a gay man marries a gay women, they can produce children as long as there aren't any medical conditions preventing it.

So, trying to compare Gay Rights to the Civil Rights movement is really just a distortion of the facts. A black person can't choose to not be black (Michael Jackson doesn't count), however homosexuals can be successfully rescued from that lifestyle. There are plenty of Christian organizations that do just that and are very successful at it.

For as many "success" stories that you could find, I'm pretty sure I could find as many that say otherwise.

There is no scientific evidence, that I'm aware of, that states homosexuality is anything but a mental disorder.

There are studies out there that are revealing more into this than you are aware of.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...978923,00.html
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...cience19m.html

These were only a few of the ones showing on the first page of a google search.

[Neezar]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Immorality has a firm footing in the door in most heterosexual marriages and relationships IMO

How do you decide, in your opinion, on what is moral and what is immoral if you don't believe in God?

Originally Posted by Neezar

How do you decide, in your opinion, on what is moral and what is immoral if you don't believe in God?

It's quite easy to live a good life without the belief in god. While religions use the "Golden Rule", others including myself can and do live an ethical life by adhering to those same principles.

[Vizion]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

While it may state that in the bible, the bible was written by fallible men and used to control mankind and to set an agenda. There are many many parts of the original bible that were omitted throughout the many rewritings and translations of it. The bible uses many stories from many different cultures. There is no proof the the bible is the word of god.

You're watching too much of the History Channel And falling right into Satan's hands too

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

It also hasn't been dis-proven.

You're just talking in circles now.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

That too has yet to be proven.

It also hasn't been disproven.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

While it may state that in the bible, the bible was written by fallible men and used to control mankind and to set an agenda. There are many many parts of the original bible that were omitted throughout the many rewritings and translations of it. The bible uses many stories from many different cultures. There is no proof the the bible is the word of god.

That is your opinion, but the evidence says otherwise.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Absolutely no proof of this.

That's not true, there is the written historical account. It's historical evidence, whether you consider it reliable or not. So you can't say there is "absolutely no proof" because there is proof, you just choose not to believe it.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Completely false. If a gay man marries a gay women, they can produce children as long as there aren't any medical conditions preventing it.

However, will they produce a homosexual child? That's the point.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

For as many "success" stories that you could find, I'm pretty sure I could find as many that say otherwise.

I'm sure we could find conflicting "success" stories involving alcoholism as well. That doesn't mean that programs for helping alcoholics are a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

There are studies out there that are revealing more into this than you are aware of.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...978923,00.html
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...cience19m.html

However, nothing conclusive has been found. It's still all speculation. Just the cautiousness of the wording of those articles shows that they are reading a lot into the evidence. If modern science was able to firmly prove a link between genetics and homosexuality, then it would literally be everywhere in the news media.

Like Thomas Jefferson said:
"The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory."

So, these scientists are trying so hard to find a genetic reason for homosexuality that they might be making connections that simply don't really exist.

My point is that it doesn't matter. There are plenty of neurological disorders that are passed down genetically. Alcoholism is believed to be genetic, but that doesn't mean that alcoholism is not a destructive lifestyle.

Originally Posted by Buzzard

It also hasn't been dis-proven.


That too has yet to be proven.




While it may state that in the bible, the bible was written by fallible men and used to control mankind and to set an agenda. There are many many parts of the original bible that were omitted throughout the many rewritings and translations of it. The bible uses many stories from many different cultures. There is no proof the the bible is the word of god.


Absolutely no proof of this.



Completely false. If a gay man marries a gay women, they can produce children as long as there aren't any medical conditions preventing it.



For as many "success" stories that you could find, I'm pretty sure I could find as many that say otherwise.



There are studies out there that are revealing more into this than you are aware of.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...978923,00.html
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...cience19m.html

These were only a few of the ones showing on the first page of a google search.

What do you consider proof? Aren't facts simply theories and assumptions made by men that we choose to believe?

You site multiple "studies" you found on Google. Is that proof? Facts? Or just theories and assumptions believed by some and not by others?

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Chuck

What do you consider proof? Aren't facts simply theories and assumptions made by men that we choose to believe?

You site multiple "studies" you found on Google. Is that proof? Facts? Or just theories and assumptions believed by some and not by others?

That's a good point. Christians come under a lot of fire for putting faith into a book that non-believers claim was written by men with an agenda.

However, putting your faith in science is merely believing in the words of different men with a different agenda.

Scientists are under great pressure to perform and justify the grant money that they rely on. So you have to have complete faith in those scientists that they are not skewing the facts or misrepresenting their findings in any way. You also have to put faith in their competence level. The only proof that we have of their qualifications is a college degree that was granted by other people who, it is believed, have the authority to determine who is competent and who is not. What gives these other people (we call them professors) the ability to judge competence? Well that is determined by still another group of people.... and on and on....

The only way to KNOW for sure that what you believe is a scientific fact is to conduct the experiments yourself. However, even then you are trusting in your own abilities and competence level. So you are still putting your faith in a person.