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  #41  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:56 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by BradW View Post
I'm neither catholic nor Christian....but you shouldn't let that stop you...
we can get married any time you want.
well as long as my wife doesn't mind that is.
the first sane post in this thread!
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  #42  
Old 02-12-2014, 06:07 PM
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I guess it's just I don't see any real point to any of these things. It doesn't get you into heaven.It's just a bunch of unnecessary ritual, which I just don't do rituals.
Nothing personal though.
But He will LOVe ritual if he is High Church. He will like the traditional liternies. He will like the Structure of the High Church Communion. He will like the rules and regulations, the dogmatism, and the cannon. How much he loves that probably depends on just how Catholic he is.

At the most Extreme End...Ask him if he enjoys "Exposition of the Host" Because that really IS a waste of time. The Romans get a large Wafer used in Communion. They consecrate it, and so believe Transubstantiation has occured.

They then get this giant Monstronse. Which is a Huge disc mounted on a poll. With a little window right at the centre. They put the Wafer in that Window and then they swing the monsteronse around, and up and down, and walk around with it...it gives the congregation "Exposure" to the Body of Christ. (From the people who have mounted Saint Barnabus middle finger in a Monsteronse and left it in a Roman Cathedral...as if the saint is flipping the birdie so to speak)

If he enjoys Exposition of the Holy Sacrement...Dump him...you wont tollerate him for long
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:16 PM
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Dave, your Catholic? I should have known
I am a card carrying Anglican. I was baptized as an Infant into the Church of England in the Diocese of Lincoln. I was Confirmed Anglican on All Saints Day (1st November) 2003 AD by His Grace, The Lord Bishop of London, in the Quire of Saint Paul's Cathedral.

I was raised in a Low Church, almost celtic infact, but following much trial and error with different denominations, mainly during my University days, including, American Pentecostalism, Methodists, and a Free Church. I finally settled on a High Church setting.

I would be included in what is known as the Anglo-Catholic bracket of Anglicanism. That means I have adopted the style, and many of the lintanies and formal settings offered by the Roman Church....BUT, that crucially, I am not subject to the Bishop of Rome, and deny the existance of what is known as Apostolic Succession, which entitles him to an undeserved status, considering it is not dynastic in any way.

It is a preference, rather then anything else. Personally, I just can not unify the idea of apostolic succession period. It is based off a huge assumption that is NOT supported by Scripture. Though I recongise its a valid form of Christianity, it is not one I could adhere to. So I take Romanism, and remove the Pontiff, and the Roman Curia, and instead like about a third of Anglicanism, it is inserted into the Anglican Episcopal framework.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:25 PM
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1) Not hardly Dave. That's a common opinion shared by um... MILLIONS of people including me.
.
The beautiful thing about democracy dear Chuck, is that the minority CAN be Millions strong.

But in essence, the only people who do not accept that Rome is not only Christian, but the largest portion of it by a LONG way, are usually Southern Baptists, or extreme Right presbyterian and almost exclusively American.

Millions though that might be...and I have my doubts that those denominations combined equate to that many millions....they are a fraction...whereas all the mainstream denominations, the free churches, the Presbyterians, The United Reformed, The Reformed, The Baptists, The Methodists....they along with the Anglican Communion, that includes American Episcopal, and African Gospel...will at least admit that though misguided in many things, and full of pointless fluff...the Roman Church as it exists today...is Christian.

Of course...hardcore, and I do mean, probably only the Curia itself...would say that ANYTHING non Roman is not Christian...that is why if you were to go into a Roman Church and ask for Communion, they would tell you where to go. They do not consider themselves in communion with any other denomination (at least those who actually run the Vatican) except a loose connection with various strands of the Orthodox and Coptic Traditions...and thats because of the fact the leaders of those denominations are also Popes of Apostolic Succession.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:27 PM
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Hey! No fighting in my thread!
Dave be nice to NateR!
Dont try to defend him, you'll make him look weak.
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2014, 06:49 PM
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So how did Catholics...come to be in the way that they are if it wasn't from scripture? I know it's off topic but hey, it's my thread

I'm really curious though...and confused
Soooo after Christ died, the Apostles began teaching Messianic Judaism, and the Orthodox Jews eventually tiered of what they considered to be blasphemy, and they banned the Messianic Jews from the Temple. These Messianic Jews would then gather in peoples houses, and float all around the Meditarainian.

At this point, the Roman Empire was in a power hungry mode, and it used to hurt minority faiths. The Romans killed all the Apostles, and over centuries Christianity existed almost on a Church by Church basis, they call this period of three hundred years, "The Early Church" The first time that a proper Christian Faith was separate from a Jewish faith, if you ignore the Anabaptists who sort of alligned themselves with Messianic Jews, but arguably existed right back to the time of Christ thanks to John the Baptists unique style of Judaism.

Three hundred years later, and the Roman Empire was begining to fragment. The person incharge was called Constentine. He was both Religious Leader, and Civil Leader, and he believed that what would hold the whole Empire together was a single belief system. For reasons unknown (he claims a conversion experience) one day Constentine decided to change the state religion of the entire empire from a mass of different paganisms, to Christianity.

His Wife goes off to the middle east and keeps returning with objects she claims are spiritual...she finds, supposedly, the real wood from the cross, the real nails..blah, blah, blah...and the Emporar decides to found a Religious city in Turkey, called Constantinople. He hopes this will save the Eastern edge of the Empire from falling apart.

He has one problem...noone seems to know exactly what beyond the old testament, and Christ, is Christian...he summons all the faithful, and they all have their own versions of the new testament. So he convenes a Great Council...the first of many...and the task of this council is to define Christianity as different to the Jewish Faith. They go through all documents, and decide what should be included in the new testament and what is not.

Once they have a New Testament, the Church Fathers begin work on doctrine for The Holy Roman Church....they discover that infact Rome already had a "church" founded by an Apostle known as Peter. So they make a list of all the Bishops that followed Peter, and claim those Bishops as their own Popes...they then claim they are spiritual decendants of Peter, as authorised by a Scripture that THEY put together They included a document that said that Christ would build his Church around Peter, and that he would have special powers...and they they claim that those powers go to everyone in that office...and then Constentine naturally, assumes the office

It would have worked brilliantly...except his scheme fell apart when, even under a unified belief, the East broke from the West, and the two became rivals who disagreed about the liturgical callendar. It was known as "the great schism" it tore Christianity apart. Byzantia was a great rival to Rome, but Rome prevailed when during the Crusades, the Islamists distroyed Byzantia...suddenly, Rome was returned back to supreme and unrivaled...until the Protestant Reformation Rome Rulled with a very unchristian attitude infact. Everywhere Rome went, so went the Bible...compiled by them...and even when the denominations split off...they all kept the original concordance of Rome.

If you deny Rome...then you must abandon the New Testament completely...for it was compiled by non other then Rome herself. You put your spiritual trust in a Canon created by the people that Nathan would have you believe worship demonic entities.

Awkward No? I mean...you cant have it both ways...either the Roman Church is devil worship in disguise, or it isnt...if it is...then it becomes awkward that you would use as your central cannon, the scripture that THEY compiled...and assume somehow, that devil worshippers, could discern the Word of GOD and distribute it for the best part of two thousand years....
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  #47  
Old 02-12-2014, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Anyone care to expand on this verse?
What do YOU think it means

Bear in mind...which denomination decided that should be Scripture in the first place

There is ONE mistake that the Roman Church overlooked....The vast majority of the Roman Compilation is Pauline...writen by Saint Paul, for the Christian Converts...Which is lovely...but they dont actually pretend to have apostolic succession from Paul.

They claim to have apostolic succession from peter...frightfully interesting is the fact that Peter did NOT converse with the converts, but focused on the Jews.

Now...Who is it that the Pope speaks to? He says he's decended from Peter...yet he does the work of Paul....that IS fascinating....
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  #48  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
It's a chant to a demonic entity.
This was your response to Michelle's ?, "What is a "Hail Mary"? Please explain your answer because it sounds like you are saying Mary is a demonic entity?

I've been looking at scripture and certain words used in the first half of the Hail Mary do come straight from the Bible, Luke 1:28 (when the angel Gabriel greets Mary to tell her she will conceive a son, Jesus), and Luke 1:42 (when Mary goes to see her cousin, Elizabeth, who has also been blessed with child, John the Baptist.)

In reading/researching about the prayer, I have come across the word "intercession" being used in the explanation on some of the Catholic sites so maybe that is how the prayer was intended by the church.
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  #49  
Old 02-12-2014, 07:45 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
This was your response to Michelle's ?, "What is a "Hail Mary"? Please explain your answer because it sounds like you are saying Mary is a demonic entity?

I've been looking at scripture and certain words used in the first half of the Hail Mary do come straight from the Bible, Luke 1:28 (when the angel Gabriel greets Mary to tell her she will conceive a son, Jesus), and Luke 1:42 (when Mary goes to see her cousin, Elizabeth, who has also been blessed with child, John the Baptist.)

In reading/researching about the prayer, I have come across the word "intercession" being used in the explanation on some of the Catholic sites so maybe that is how the prayer was intended by the church.
nate does what he wants around here .. its basically his site .. if someone would have thrown out an insult like that which would have insulted him, the ban hammer would have come down ... he's the first to cry about backing things up by quoting scripture and providing sources etc, but never does on his own .....
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
nate does what he wants around here .. its basically his site .. if someone would have thrown out an insult like that which would have insulted him, the ban hammer would have come down ... he's the first to cry about backing things up by quoting scripture and providing sources etc, but never does on his own .....

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