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  #31  
Old 01-08-2014, 03:40 PM
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I'm not afraid to be attacked for proclaiming the truth of the Bible. If that truth makes you feel bad about yourself, then obviously that's exactly how you should be feeling right now.
I feel shyte right now...but I think thats more to do with this mornings migrain then your twisting of any knife.

Nathan...though your saved, you still go through Judgement. Christ took the penalty away...not the judgement of it. You, like everyone, saved and non saved still await judgement after death.

Secondly...as you've admitted we dont stop sinning just because we are christian, I dont understand why you make such a who-ha about one particular sin, and how the abstinance of that, or lack of it, should show about their eternity...whilst your own, and everyone elses, doesnt. Thats what ive never understood about you, and all those sinners, who pick on homosexual sin. A sin, like any other in the eyes of God.

Its only man who thinks differently.
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  #32  
Old 01-08-2014, 03:56 PM
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But I don't believe we are to be judging other religions. Paul tells us that if they believe differently from us we are to embrace them, not to debate who is right or wrong, but embrace them as a brother in Christ and agree to disagree.
What Bible verse are you getting this from? Because we are absolutely not to embrace other religions (Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, etc.). Unless you are talking about different denominations of Christians. In that case, as long as they believe in the fundamental tenants of the Christian faith (deity of Christ, authority of Scripture, virgin birth, etc.), then we are to embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ and not worry so much about the secondary issues. However, if they deny any of the fundamental beliefs, but still claim to be Christian, then they are apostates. Apostates needs to be corrected in their false beliefs, subject to church discipline or simply cast out of the church. We are not to embrace them as brothers in Christ because they are not brothers in Christ. Allowing them to remain in the church to spread their false beliefs will only create strife and division within the body of Christ.

Read the letters to the seven churches in the book of Revelation. You will see that Jesus Christ has absolutely zero tolerance for churches who knowingly allow false believers and apostates to remain in their congregations. Of course, there are always going to be apostates and false believers in our churches that we are unaware of, but that doesn't mean that we are not required to root them out when we do discover them.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:26 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
I feel shyte right now...but I think thats more to do with this mornings migrain then your twisting of any knife.

Nathan...though your saved, you still go through Judgement. Christ took the penalty away...not the judgement of it. You, like everyone, saved and non saved still await judgement after death.

Secondly...as you've admitted we dont stop sinning just because we are christian, I dont understand why you make such a who-ha about one particular sin, and how the abstinance of that, or lack of it, should show about their eternity...whilst your own, and everyone elses, doesnt. Thats what ive never understood about you, and all those sinners, who pick on homosexual sin. A sin, like any other in the eyes of God.

Its only man who thinks differently.
i don't think that is what nate is saying .. sin is sin, but the sin of homosexuality is being accepted as it is not sin .. like it is normal, natural and should be not seen as sin .. so that is why it is a topic .. no one is trying to say adultery is normal, being a drunk is ok etc ..
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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i didn't meant to be a smartass, denise, in fact i am guilty of not having read this whole thread, i do have to stick to my guns that judging is judging, it doesn't matter to what degree and we all need to judge

in fairness though phil didn't judge anyone, he only did what you seem to be okay with and that is judging sin. Actually merely quoting the bible, and it wasn't just homosexuality he said was a sin.

the problem only arose when the homosexuals hit the ceiling cause they don't want their sin to be called sin

some of this is semantics--- i don't generally disagree with you very much, i imagine we agree more than either of us realize, but the fact remains that phil didn't judge anyone, he merely informed people what the bible had judged as sin
I agree, Adam, I don't think Phil was judging either. I feel like the article was quite benign, it was those in the media and gay community (GLADD) who decided to blow this up into something it never was for their own agendas.
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  #35  
Old 01-08-2014, 05:52 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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Denise, I will help you make a point you started to make earlier:

http://youtu.be/x7orDlFnkNA?t=23m


however, the heathen nowadays don't merely want to not be judged, they want to be judged as right. They want to be accepted and they want their sin to be condoned. Merely telling them Jesus is God and savior makes them feel judged. At some point you have to convey to people they are sinners in need of a savior
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:33 PM
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Denise, I will help you make a point you started to make earlier:

http://youtu.be/x7orDlFnkNA?t=23m


however, the heathen nowadays don't merely want to not be judged, they want to be judged as right. They want to be accepted and they want their sin to be condoned. Merely telling them Jesus is God and savior makes them feel judged. At some point you have to convey to people they are sinners in need of a savior
I love it!

Judge the believin' not the heathen. lol
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
What Bible verse are you getting this from? Because we are absolutely not to embrace other religions (Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, etc.). Unless you are talking about different denominations of Christians. In that case, as long as they believe in the fundamental tenants of the Christian faith (deity of Christ, authority of Scripture, virgin birth, etc.), then we are to embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ and not worry so much about the secondary issues. However, if they deny any of the fundamental beliefs, but still claim to be Christian, then they are apostates. Apostates needs to be corrected in their false beliefs, subject to church discipline or simply cast out of the church. We are not to embrace them as brothers in Christ because they are not brothers in Christ. Allowing them to remain in the church to spread their false beliefs will only create strife and division within the body of Christ.

Read the letters to the seven churches in the book of Revelation. You will see that Jesus Christ has absolutely zero tolerance for churches who knowingly allow false believers and apostates to remain in their congregations. Of course, there are always going to be apostates and false believers in our churches that we are unaware of, but that doesn't mean that we are not required to root them out when we do discover them.
Romans 14.

And yes, I believe you are right. That was terribly worded.

Last edited by Neezar; 01-08-2014 at 08:00 PM.
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  #38  
Old 01-09-2014, 06:30 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
i don't think that is what nate is saying .. sin is sin, but the sin of homosexuality is being accepted as it is not sin .. like it is normal, natural and should be not seen as sin .. so that is why it is a topic .. no one is trying to say adultery is normal, being a drunk is ok etc ..
obviously its not "normal" otherwise, everyone one would be one, and procreation would be possible that way (as it is through some species in single sexed environments, and some plants)

The argument is whether or not it can be helpped by those who suffer from it, its an unanswerable question. Those who suffer almost certainly say that the feelings cant be helpped, therefore they are natural for them, therefore they should be given equality. Those who dont, particularly those with any religious convictions, are polar opposite. They say the feels can be made to go away, and that granting equality sets a dangerous president.

Whilst noone can accidently comitt a homosexual actions...the jury is out on whether people actually have any control over their sexual desires...and a lot of Christians, including at least half of those vocal against homosexuality on this forum, make NO DISTINCTION between harbouring feelings, and practise...therefore, they could be damning someone for uncontrollable feelings, even if they are not practising.

I was told that because of my homosexual feelings (bear in mind, I had not practised in three years by this point, and those who said it were well aware of that) I was not fit to be in a position of authority or teaching over other Christians...infact, I was not fit enough to be a moderator of the Christian Section on this very forum because of feelings, urges...not because I had done anything with those. Only because I vowed never to speak about it in relation to myself, did I remain...and less then a month later I resigned as C-Section Mod because, frankly, why should I pretend...not speaking, doesnt change the urges, anymore then not speaking supposedly made the whole thing vanish. I remained a Mod of an area I suppose I couldnt do anyone any spiritual damage in at least.

If one is truely guilty on the basis of feelings alone, one is guilty whether they tell people or not, and whether they practise is absolutely mute. The far Right believe its a sickness you can be healed from if you pray about it enough...though I only encountered one person on this forum who actually said that to me...and it wasnt Nathan...but the rest of the above...that was Nathan, less then three full months after I met stayed with him in America.

So you'll excuse me if I refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes down to this particular issue. But this, the threat of being removed for basically dissagreeing on spiritual or political basis would pop up once every three years...whilst the C-Section issue happened in 2007, before I started my weekly video blog, I refered to it again, two years later when I was threatened over the Iraq War (2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL5WngIjCMY

...and then three years later (2013) over my opinions, which werent even fully formed on gun control...and that third time, i'd had enough and resigned my comission completely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmB6eL0wVas
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  #39  
Old 01-10-2014, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
I was told that because of my homosexual feelings (bear in mind, I had not practised in three years by this point, and those who said it were well aware of that) I was not fit to be in a position of authority or teaching over other Christians...infact, I was not fit enough to be a moderator of the Christian Section on this very forum because of feelings, urges...not because I had done anything with those. Only because I vowed never to speak about it in relation to myself, did I remain...and less then a month later I resigned as C-Section Mod because, frankly, why should I pretend...not speaking, doesnt change the urges, anymore then not speaking supposedly made the whole thing vanish. I remained a Mod of an area I suppose I couldnt do anyone any spiritual damage in at least.
Yeah… that's not really what happened.

Anyways, the homosexual urges are completely natural for the people who feel them, but that's what makes them sin. Just like it's completely natural for a married man to want to sleep around with other women. And it's completely natural for two unmarried teenagers to want to engage in sexual relations. Every human being is hopelessly corrupted, so ALL of our natural urges have become corrupted as well. There is nothing good left in human nature.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The urges to worship and follow GOD are not natural for any human being. In our natural state we are enemies of GOD. So, when someone rebels against GOD, then that person is simply doing what comes naturally to all of us.

This is why it's impossible for any person to earn their way into heaven. Salvation is 100% a work of GOD and we deserve absolutely zero credit for our faith.

So, are homosexuals born that way or is it natural for them to be attracted to members of the same sex? The answer is that it doesn't matter. We are all sinners and we have no hope of redemption without GOD's direct intervention.
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  #40  
Old 01-10-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Anyways, the homosexual urges are completely natural for the people who feel them, but that's what makes them sin. Just like it's completely natural for a married man to want to sleep around with other women. And it's completely natural for two unmarried teenagers to want to engage in sexual relations. Every human being is hopelessly corrupted, so ALL of our natural urges have become corrupted as well. There is nothing good left in human nature.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The urges to worship and follow GOD are not natural for any human being. In our natural state we are enemies of GOD. So, when someone rebels against GOD, then that person is simply doing what comes naturally to all of us.

This is why it's impossible for any person to earn their way into heaven. Salvation is 100% a work of GOD and we deserve absolutely zero credit for our faith.

So, are homosexuals born that way or is it natural for them to be attracted to members of the same sex? The answer is that it doesn't matter. We are all sinners and we have no hope of redemption without GOD's direct intervention.
Amen.
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