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  #31  
Old 06-30-2013, 07:52 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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GOD created all the animals on Earth, then GOD created Adam and Eve who every human on Earth is descended from. Immediately after creating Eve, GOD created marriage. This is why marriage exists throughout all of GOD's creation regardless of religion or culture.

Sure, there are animals that mate for life, but I wouldn't necessarily consider those to be marriages.
All of Creation was originally designed perfect before the Fall....Incase you hadnt noticed...Creation was spoilt.

Now ALL creation is doomed without the aid of Christ....and you think GOD takes notice of a Union, symbolic of His Love for His People....and think it applies to other faiths...or no faiths at all??

The point your missing is...those other marriages may aswell be the same as animal unions...Marriage, as I pointed out...is NOT just to provide a shelter and safe surround for Union...it is NOT just a promise made between two people...it is NOT Justified, Consecrated, Blessed, or Sanctified by a Church Ceremony.

Its a Fundemental part of my theology. The Church has ZERO control over Sacrements, and ONLY GOD can bestow a sacrement...Marriage is a Sacrement....If you say that GOD bestows that gift on people of other faiths and no faiths...who live a sinful lifestyle because they dont believe...but say that GOD Refuses to bestow it on homosexuals....the question I have for you is...Why?

BOTH live sinful lifestyles...and all sin is equal in the eyes of GOD.

The fact that a man and a woman can procreate actually leads them to MORE sin...for not only have they married without GODs blessing...they then procreate outside of wedlock!! At least Homosexuals that marry will never by guilty of THAT sin

What this boils down to...is one rule for one, another rule for another. Because non christians can procreate...YOU dont mind them marrying, and turn such a blind eye to the sin of them who marry without being saved, that everything is fine.....but Homosexuals marrying...Well GOD just hates them.

News for you Nate...GOD hates the heathen just as much.

If its wrong for Gays, its wrong for Heathen...if its right for the heathen....well...
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2013, 05:09 AM
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All of Creation was originally designed perfect before the Fall....Incase you hadnt noticed...Creation was spoilt.

Now ALL creation is doomed without the aid of Christ....and you think GOD takes notice of a Union, symbolic of His Love for His People....and think it applies to other faiths...or no faiths at all??

The point your missing is...those other marriages may aswell be the same as animal unions...Marriage, as I pointed out...is NOT just to provide a shelter and safe surround for Union...it is NOT just a promise made between two people...it is NOT Justified, Consecrated, Blessed, or Sanctified by a Church Ceremony.

Its a Fundemental part of my theology. The Church has ZERO control over Sacrements, and ONLY GOD can bestow a sacrement...Marriage is a Sacrement....If you say that GOD bestows that gift on people of other faiths and no faiths...who live a sinful lifestyle because they dont believe...but say that GOD Refuses to bestow it on homosexuals....the question I have for you is...Why?

BOTH live sinful lifestyles...and all sin is equal in the eyes of GOD.

The fact that a man and a woman can procreate actually leads them to MORE sin...for not only have they married without GODs blessing...they then procreate outside of wedlock!! At least Homosexuals that marry will never by guilty of THAT sin

What this boils down to...is one rule for one, another rule for another. Because non christians can procreate...YOU dont mind them marrying, and turn such a blind eye to the sin of them who marry without being saved, that everything is fine.....but Homosexuals marrying...Well GOD just hates them.

News for you Nate...GOD hates the heathen just as much.

If its wrong for Gays, its wrong for Heathen...if its right for the heathen....well...
Where do you get this idea that GOD hates the heathen? We were all born sinners and, while we were completely unredeemable enemies of GOD, He still sacrificed His only Son to give us a chance at salvation. Not because we were in any way lovable or because we deserved it, but because of His love for us.

The level of love that GOD showed to us, even though He had every reason to hate us and condemn us to an eternity of torture and suffering, is beyond our human ability to comprehend. So exactly where are you getting this idea that GOD hates sinners? If GOD hated sinners, then Christ would never have bothered to die on the cross.

Either way, I'm not saying that GOD blesses marriages between non-believers, but He will hold those people accountable for their marriage. So, if nothing else, non-believing married couples are simply giving GOD more rope to hang them with.

Why would GOD refuse to bestow marriage on homosexuals? Because marriage was designed by GOD as a shadow of things to come. Just like the Jews didn't have the authority to rewrite the rituals of the Temple sacrifices, we don't have the authority to rewrite marriage. If GOD considers the sin of homosexuality to be worthy of death, then why would He honor a "marriage" between homosexuals? That doesn't even make sense. It's like claiming that GOD has to honor a "marriage" between a man and a pig just because humanity had degraded itself to the point where that kind of sexual relationship is acceptable in society's eyes.

If we, sinful, corrupted humans, can "outvote" GOD on matters of morality, then where does that line get drawn? We're just going to keep sinking into lower and lower forms of depravity, because Satan is not going to say, "Okay that's far enough, people. I don't want you to take this sin thing too far." No, his goal is the total destruction of every single person and the more we wallow in our own filth and declare it an "alternative lifestyle", the happier he is.
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  #33  
Old 07-01-2013, 03:15 PM
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Why would GOD refuse to bestow marriage on homosexuals? Because marriage was designed by GOD as a shadow of things to come.
That is precisely why he wouldnt bestow it on heathen unions either.

NIETHER reflect the correct design.

ANY SIN if worthy of Death...thats the WHOLE point of Christs saving power.

But whilst its easy for you to point and prod the homosexual...I DONT see you doing the same for the heathen...You say that Homosexual marriage would be the end of religious freedom...your churches ALREADY MARRY HEATHEN...somehow that doesnt seem to bother you....you dont piss and moan about that, you dont rebuke the heathen.

From the point of view of someone who suffers from temptations towards the sins you most be-wail...it is REALLY frustrating, and terribly unfair, that you cant be arsed to show the same type of venhemance towards others who live sinful lifestyle no worse, and no better.

Its not just you Nathan...this is common across christendom, and the reason is simple...the sheer numbers of heathen make it impossible for you to speak out against them, and you have become so used to them living in your midst you turn a blind eye because its a hetrosexual union...Homosexuals are a smaller group of people...whose union would be so fundementally different...that whilst NO MORE SINFUL...its a lot more obvious.

The way round this is of course to go back to basics and remember that only humans view sins in degrees of immorality, and then recall that from the Divine point of view...you're either perfect...or you're not....and cast that back on yourself, to put yourself in the same bracket as those that you rebuke...and know that if it wasnt for Saving Grcae of Christ...you would face the same doom.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:36 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJdPI27gZPg

There is a very well known hymn, based on a literny chant I think, that brings to mind What the sacrement of marriage is based upon. I know it as "Jerusalem et Sion Filiae" But if you've ever heard of the hymn its probably called "Zions Daughters, Sons of Jerusalem"

In its closing verses it describes really well how the Church as Fides Sponsa so to speak is rewarded. This is what Marriage is supposed to symbolize...The Union of Christ and The Church.

So the Church shines forth on her pilgrimage,
signed with Jordan's waters of penitence,
drawn to hear the wisdom of Solomon,
from the world's end.

"So, foretold by figures and prophecies,
clothed in nuptial vesture of charity,
joined with Christ, o'er heaven's glad citizens
now she reigneth.

"Welcome! feast of light and felicity,
Bride to Bridegroom joining in unity;
in her mystic marriage is typified
our salvation."

Christ, whose joys we joyfully celebrate,
grant us all a place with thy chosen ones,
true delights, ineffable happiness,
rest eternal.
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  #35  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:01 AM
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Isn't it kind of ironic how it's two unmarried guys that seem to have the most to say about marriage?

I'll have to do some more research on this, but I definitely don't believe that GOD ignores marriages between non-believers.

If what you are saying were correct, Dave, then that would create some major questions about sin. Because, if marriage is the only approved relationship where sexual intercourse can exist, then is a married man guilty of fornication every time he has sex with his wife? And can a married unbeliever actually commit adultery?
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  #36  
Old 07-02-2013, 12:42 PM
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Let the gays marry.

Why should they get to be happy?
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  #37  
Old 07-02-2013, 04:03 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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i am slowly changing my mind .. maybe not totally changing it .. but realizing the whole gay agenda thing .... making sense to me ...
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  #38  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:10 PM
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Let the gays marry.

Why should they get to be happy?


You make a good point!
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  #39  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:13 PM
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i am slowly changing my mind .. maybe not totally changing it .. but realizing the whole gay agenda thing .... making sense to me ...
Please explain...what do you mean?
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  #40  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Isn't it kind of ironic how it's two unmarried guys that seem to have the most to say about marriage?

I'll have to do some more research on this, but I definitely don't believe that GOD ignores marriages between non-believers.

1) If what you are saying were correct, Dave, then that would create some major questions about sin. Because, if marriage is the only approved relationship where sexual intercourse can exist, then is a married man guilty of fornication every time he has sex with his wife?

2) And can a married unbeliever actually commit adultery?
1) well essentially yes, because the Wedding isnt Sanctified it doesnt truely exist on the Spiritual Level...therefore, it would be the same type of sin as Cohabitating Sexual partners

2) I believe so because Adultory at its heart is based on lust...and whilst a heathen marriage may not be sanctified, its still the word and promise of the individual...therefore, they can still be unfaithful to that promise.

But I admit that would boil down to pragmatics I suppose.

The other side of the argument of course would simply be to say that any long-term loving relationship, even homosexual...would be better then constant promiscuity...It depends how far you believe the spirit of the law differs from the letter of it.

The other thing to recall is that marriage is not an eternal union. The concept of Union with GOD is eternal, but marriage, however sacred, is just a reflection of that on earth. One is freed from the sanctity of marriage on the death of their spouse

Its ultimately very difficult...but, personally, in regards to homosexuals...I just dont understand why with the option of civil unions...what the justification is in pushing for marriage. Equality in law I think can be obtained in a civil union, in regards to next of kin, and simply make what you want legally binding in your will if its not. Marriage seems like its being done deliberately to upset Christians...and THATS what abhores me about the whole ideal...It feels like its being done out of spite, and not equality at all....and why would any person who claims to be hard done by the oppression of another, then want to do something to inflict that one someone else??
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