GSP...I know I know...

[kevint13]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

if i know that, and you know that and all of the fighter know that, how is it not possible that someone hasn't beaten him by now ... most guys can't even win a round ... he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect ... he stood with diaz for half the fight and diaz still did nothing to win a round

This isn't like Ronda's armbar where you have to watch out for a move or a setup....this is an entire fighting style that is designed on control and winning by points rather than going for finishes. We aren't saying it isn't effective, we are saying it is entirely predictable and makes him boring.

I knew GSP wasn't going to finish Diaz and likely not Condit, very few have. But he has let fighters off the hook when he has had them hurt and likely in a position where he could finish them ie. Hardy and Koscheck.

To me this is no different than when Machida decides to sit back and counter, you won't beat him with that style and the fight will likely be boring.

[Irish Pride]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

if i know that, and you know that and all of the fighter know that, how is it not possible that someone hasn't beaten him by now ... most guys can't even win a round ... he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect ... he stood with diaz for half the fight and diaz still did nothing to win a round

"he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect"

I'm not sure I believe this. I believe he comes up with a game plan based on another fighter. I do not think he is this awesome striker. I think he took Diaz to the ground because he couldn't out strike him for 5 rounds. I'm certainly not saying he should have stood with Diaz for 5 rounds though. I think he plays it smart. I think when he realizes someone is a better striker his game plan is to wrestle them down and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you simply use it as defense and no offense then that's what frustrates me as a fan.

But do I think he has better ground and pound then other fighters? No. Do I think he has better striking? No. Better submissions? No. I think he uses his grappling skills to nullify striking, submissions, and ground and pound. But that's it...he just grapples. I don't see him swinging around for submissions, getting on top in full mount and ground and pounding away, I don't see him throwing big bombs.

GSP does dominate. But what does dominate mean?


dom·i·nate
[dom-uh-neyt] Show IPA verb, dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to rule over; govern; control.

Yes, he does control his opponents. But that is it...he controls them by nullifying their attacks yet not pushing forward with attacks of his own.

I haven't been able to come up with the word I am looking for. It is a word to compare to dominate. The only good word I can come up with is destroy. Anderson Silva dominates and destroys. He analyzes his opponents and uses their weakness to destroy them. Domination alone doesn't mean very much. How many fans would Anderson or Jon Jones have if they only thing they did was win rounds and dominate yet put you to sleep in the process with their predictability and nullifying tactics.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by Irish Pride

"he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect"

I'm not sure I believe this. I believe he comes up with a game plan based on another fighter. I do not think he is this awesome striker. I think he took Diaz to the ground because he couldn't out strike him for 5 rounds. I'm certainly not saying he should have stood with Diaz for 5 rounds though. I think he plays it smart. I think when he realizes someone is a better striker his game plan is to wrestle them down and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you simply use it as defense and no offense then that's what frustrates me as a fan.

But do I think he has better ground and pound then other fighters? No. Do I think he has better striking? No. Better submissions? No. I think he uses his grappling skills to nullify striking, submissions, and ground and pound. But that's it...he just grapples. I don't see him swinging around for submissions, getting on top in full mount and ground and pounding away, I don't see him throwing big bombs.

GSP does dominate. But what does dominate mean?


dom·i·nate
[dom-uh-neyt] Show IPA verb, dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to rule over; govern; control.

Yes, he does control his opponents. But that is it...he controls them by nullifying their attacks yet not pushing forward with attacks of his own.

I haven't been able to come up with the word I am looking for. It is a word to compare to dominate. The only good word I can come up with is destroy. Anderson Silva dominates and destroys. He analyzes his opponents and uses their weakness to destroy them. Domination alone doesn't mean very much. How many fans would Anderson or Jon Jones have if they only thing they did was win rounds and dominate yet put you to sleep in the process with their predictability and nullifying tactics.

Excellent, Irish Pride, excellent...you've nailed it!

[rearnakedchoke]

Originally Posted by Irish Pride

"he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect"

I'm not sure I believe this. I believe he comes up with a game plan based on another fighter. I do not think he is this awesome striker. I think he took Diaz to the ground because he couldn't out strike him for 5 rounds. I'm certainly not saying he should have stood with Diaz for 5 rounds though. I think he plays it smart. I think when he realizes someone is a better striker his game plan is to wrestle them down and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you simply use it as defense and no offense then that's what frustrates me as a fan.

But do I think he has better ground and pound then other fighters? No. Do I think he has better striking? No. Better submissions? No. I think he uses his grappling skills to nullify striking, submissions, and ground and pound. But that's it...he just grapples. I don't see him swinging around for submissions, getting on top in full mount and ground and pounding away, I don't see him throwing big bombs.

GSP does dominate. But what does dominate mean?


dom·i·nate
[dom-uh-neyt] Show IPA verb, dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to rule over; govern; control.

Yes, he does control his opponents. But that is it...he controls them by nullifying their attacks yet not pushing forward with attacks of his own.

I haven't been able to come up with the word I am looking for. It is a word to compare to dominate. The only good word I can come up with is destroy. Anderson Silva dominates and destroys. He analyzes his opponents and uses their weakness to destroy them. Domination alone doesn't mean very much. How many fans would Anderson or Jon Jones have if they only thing they did was win rounds and dominate yet put you to sleep in the process with their predictability and nullifying tactics.

great post ... imo guys like the ones you named, jones, silva are great fighters, but i would still put gsp in their class ... regardless of being boring, or winning on points, he is still winning fights handily ... we know he has weak points, condit was able to nail him with a head kick, serra was able to ko him .. but its a matter of beating him .... in the end, though, when its all said and done, gsp will go down as one of the greatest ever ... and people will forget about how he won and just focus on that he won ..

[Liddellfan]

GSP used to be fun to watch.......UNTIL he got KTFO by Matt Serra. After that fight, that's when the take down and lay fighting style really started IMO.
After that Serra fight, GSP has seemed really nervous when it somes to striking with pretty much anyone.
Very interested to see what happens in his next fight. Chances are very good he may end up on his back with the ref standing over him after a bomb from Hendricks.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Irish Pride

"he is better than everyone at pretty much every aspect"

I'm not sure I believe this. I believe he comes up with a game plan based on another fighter. I do not think he is this awesome striker. I think he took Diaz to the ground because he couldn't out strike him for 5 rounds. I'm certainly not saying he should have stood with Diaz for 5 rounds though. I think he plays it smart. I think when he realizes someone is a better striker his game plan is to wrestle them down and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you simply use it as defense and no offense then that's what frustrates me as a fan.

But do I think he has better ground and pound then other fighters? No. Do I think he has better striking? No. Better submissions? No. I think he uses his grappling skills to nullify striking, submissions, and ground and pound. But that's it...he just grapples. I don't see him swinging around for submissions, getting on top in full mount and ground and pounding away, I don't see him throwing big bombs.

GSP does dominate. But what does dominate mean?


dom·i·nate
[dom-uh-neyt] Show IPA verb, dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to rule over; govern; control.

Yes, he does control his opponents. But that is it...he controls them by nullifying their attacks yet not pushing forward with attacks of his own.

I haven't been able to come up with the word I am looking for. It is a word to compare to dominate. The only good word I can come up with is destroy. Anderson Silva dominates and destroys. He analyzes his opponents and uses their weakness to destroy them. Domination alone doesn't mean very much. How many fans would Anderson or Jon Jones have if they only thing they did was win rounds and dominate yet put you to sleep in the process with their predictability and nullifying tactics.

I think he only controls the fight in a defensive sense, not necessarily an offensive sense. There has to be another word for that, but it's not 'dominate'.

He doesn't fight to win, it seems that he only fights not to lose, so I wouldn't consider that dominating.

[Irish Pride]

Originally Posted by NateR

I think he only controls the fight in a defensive sense, not necessarily an offensive sense. There has to be another word for that, but it's not 'dominate'.

He doesn't fight to win, it seems that he only fights not to lose, so I wouldn't consider that dominating.

Nate I thought the same thing, that there has to be another word for it, until I looked up dominate and it basically said just to control. Control, I think, is more of a defensive word then offensive, but yes I agree with you there.

Maybe he should be called the most defensively controlling champion of all time instead of the most dominating of all time.

[JavierDLC]

Yawn yet another GSP Hate Thread

Somethings never change

You can call him boring, predictable whatever but as long as he keeps winning.

[Irish Pride]

Originally Posted by JavierDLC

Yawn yet another GSP Hate Thread

Somethings never change

You can call him boring, predictable whatever but as long as he keeps winning.

I really did not mean it to be a hate thread. This is the first time that I've really posted on GSP. I just did not understand that if the UFC says that more fans need to understand technique (this would suggest that there aren't enough or a lot of these fans) then how is GSP such a big draw? He has tons of fans and is a big PPV draw. This would suggest that there are a lot of technical fans out there and I just do not think that is the case. I think he does what he does very well though. I'm just not a fan of it. But I'm not going to rag on him as a person.

[kevint13]

Originally Posted by JavierDLC

Yawn yet another GSP Hate Thread

Somethings never change

You can call him boring, predictable whatever but as long as he keeps winning.

No hate here....we were having a good conversation about it. Feel free to jump in and contribute some thoughts rather than ridicule and post just because.