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  #31  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
I expect my reaction has raised a few eyebrows of suprise that I care so much...but Loyalty sometimes only shows itself when its being tested....and besides all that I despise Injustice...I believe companies should act in a moral manner...the two combined is a catalyst to fuel my Modus Operandi
At what point would you cut one of your friends Dave? Only if they lost 3 fights in a row? What if they were 2-6 in the UFC but never lost 3 in a row, would you keep your friend or cut him?
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  #32  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:15 AM
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2) Its NOT a Global Company...thats the pharse that they tell themselves in America, because they are known in the majority of States...Hey...news for you...being successful in the US, DOESNT equate to being a "Global" Company.

What they've prooved is that havent a sodding clue about anything outside the US. They ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT MAINSTREAM IN ENGLAND....the majority of the British dont buy PPVs, and Can not see the footage through purpose built media that doesnt extend to these shores...We are still downloading naughtiness...and thats harder then ever to attain

The Americans might be prepared to pay...but you guys are NOT living under the austerity measures in place in England...and im damn sure that much of Europe is even worse off money wise

They dont even Employ Globally!! as I showed. a Global Company...like any American Firm that employs people in England MUST abide by British Employment Law...the UFC DO NOT...because technically speaking they ONLY EMPLOY FROM THE US...Even British and European Fighters that work for them in their countries of origin, are Employed IN THE US in terms of Legality.

They are NOT a Global Firm...they are an American Firm, who believe that since they are mainstream in the US, and put the odd show on foreign soil with people recruited and Employed onsite, and use those foreigners, in the foreign shows...that they are Global.

Its Bollox Max...its a Facade which you wouldnt know unless you lived and worked in one of those foreign countries.

A Global Company is like Wal-Mart....Wal-Mart own properties and Staff in different countries, and different parts of their trading empire is managed under different laws. I work for an American Company...and how can you tell its Global...and not Local with an International Outlet? Because, UNLIKE THE UFC, in this Country Wal-Mart MUST abide by BRITISH EMPLOYMENT LAW....Heck...even the rather dodgy, asset stripping American Company that my Father worked for, before it went bust last month, with outlets all over Europe and China...even they were more "Global"

"Global" is a classification, when you apply it to a business...it doesnt mean they have outlets or projects in different countries! It means they have bases in other countries, that are permanent and abide by whatever countries laws they are situated in.
Here is the problem, you feel that UK fighters should be protected by UK laws when they are working for a US company. That doesn't work in this case. If their contract stated that they would only fight in the UK then that might hold water, but being that these fighters can potentially fight all over the world, I would presume that they are working under US laws.

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ONLY in America, could you even HAVE such an opinion.
I am bowing out of this discussion. I think this has turned into a discrepancy in cultures from one country to another and rather than trying to understand we are just bashing the other country. I won't get into this, so I am done.
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  #33  
Old 02-23-2013, 01:21 PM
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1) First off it is stronger than ever. It is the largest MMA company in the world, is viewed in over 150 countries, and is making more money than it ever has.

2) You say the events are not selling out but they are still drawing crowds where ever they go. They are holding cards in Brazil, USA, Sweden Japan and Canada in the next 5 months. How are you going to tell me they are not stronger than they have ever been?

3) As for them being a global company, the UFC is different than a lot of other companies. The UFC doesn't own the venues they hold their fights in so because of this there is no reason for them to have an office in every city that they do business in. In the US they are based out of Las Vegas and to my knowledge they don't have any other offices any place else. The fighters are their employees but its not like the fighters go to the UFC gym and work each day. Since the UFC doesn't need offices in every country they hold an event they can prob just have a few people over see their operations outside of the US.

5) In fact the Executive Vice President and Managing Director of Europe, Middle East and Africa for the UFC is Garry Cook, former CEO of Manchester City. Their Executive Vice President & Managing Director of Asia is Mark Fischer, http://cn.linkedin.com/pub/mark-fischer/10/247/30b there's his LinkedIn page incase anyone wanted to see what other jobs he has had. So clearly the UFC is global enough that they felt that they needed to get VP's to cover areas outside of the US.

6) The UFC is a privately owned company, it is owned by Zuffa (which is owned by the Fertitta brothers, Dana White and Sheik Tahnoon), so no it is not on any stock exchange.
1) The UFC isnt even on a worthey TV station outside of the US...You might be able to buy the PPV in a billion countries...but availability, and actual uptake are two different things. I'd hazzard a guess that most UFC fights watched in any country outside the US, probably arent viewed through legitamate channels.

Saying something flashy, doesnt make it true.

2) As it mainly goes in the US, its obviously drawing crowds. Brazil is an exception because of its attitude to combat sports. As for Crowds in Sweden, Japan and Canada...compare crowds with crowds for other sports, and other events and you'll probably have them put in persepctive.

The UFC moving around also messes up the Stats....if they had one show a month in the same place, the numbers would fall over time. By hosting only once every so often, they ensure the entire State visits them that one day, for fear of not being able to see them at any other time.

The Crowds in England are not that massive, not even recently. When the last night of the proms is on...a SINGLE concert event at the Royal Albert Hall it has the power to bring the evening Tubes to a gridlock.

No such thing when the UFC arrive in London...though any event at the O2 Arena seems to bring North Greenwich Station to a stand still

3) The UFC isnt that much different to any Events Management type Institution that travels. That doesnt make them Global.

4) I strongly suspect that any Non American based Vice President, is simply an inflaited Ground Control Coordinator for the occasional visits. They...like the Fighters are almost certainly hired, fired, and employed from America.

The US seem to have three types of people. The Employees of the UFC you never hear about, these will include areas like travel arrangement, accomodation arrangements, movement of bulk stock, Marketting and Promotion, Audio-Visual and Liasons with different SACs and Journalism. The UFC will also, of course have Administration, Secretarial, Treasury, and The Executive. They may, or may not have Engineering.

Then there are the people in the insitutions that the UFC hire out. Much of the actual night will be controlled at a grass roots level by their recording staff, who may be with whatever companies makes and sells the PPVs, it includes the ticket staff, the catering, probably a large amount of the lighting and sounds technitions also. This may differ from place to place.

...and then there are the Fighters and their Corners and the Camp staff.

Only the FIRST of these three are definately UFC Employees. The Events will be Contractors, and the Fighters Sub-Contractors I would have thought.

6) I thought there was a way to float private companies aswell...something to do with the companies value, rather then buying shares...Its been a long time since ive researched anything to do with the Stock Exchange
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  #34  
Old 02-23-2013, 01:38 PM
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At what point would you cut one of your friends Dave? Only if they lost 3 fights in a row? What if they were 2-6 in the UFC but never lost 3 in a row, would you keep your friend or cut him?
If it was me, I would have fixed rules, and apply them to anyone regardless.

I would say, three losses in a row equates to a cut.
His obligation to the Company is not to fail thrice in a row
The companies obligation to him is, barring disciplinary action, not to sack him without this occurance, AND not to treat ANY other Fighters differently.

If Paul Sass lost three in a row...and the UFC ALWAYS cut people after three losses...and they cut him, I might be sad...but I wouldnt hold it against the UFC because they acted fair.

But they dont act fair. They sack Paul Sass when he only has two losses on his ENTIRE Record. They Sack Paul Sass when he has MORE WINS IN THEIR ORGANISATION THEN HE DOES LOSSES. Meanwhile, They openly Refuse to sack people like Mac Danzig, Frakie Edgar, Leonard Garcia, Dan Hardy et al ad infinitum! They sack Others like Jon Fitch simply because they dont like him, and then have the nerve to lie about it. They care more about people who didnt work for a place in the UFC, but found themselves thrust into the Roster by Circumstance, then people who worked on Merit.

I believe Companies should be morally upright, treat their employers in a Just manner and have fixed rules that apply to everyone from a member of the Executive, to a Ticket collector.

I would standardize Contracts in terms of the amount of fights or at least have a banding system...and I would say More then three losses whilst under a contract warrents a disciplinary hearing on the grounds of unfit to work. The pannel would look at the fights, and look specifically at what heart was displayed Vs how the fighter lost. Three bad decisions, might result in a verbal warning. Three lack lustre performances ending in finishes, might result in a final written warning. I would then take every loss after that as an extention on the Disciplinary...therefore, without terrible bad luck from judges, no fighter with more then five losses on their record, would remain with the company. Any Fighter that is found to be testing positive for banned substances would be dismissed on the grounds of Gross Misconduct, assuming the Disciplinary hearing upheld the test results. I would bar there return for an absolute minimum of One Callendar year following THE END of their suspension. One failure to make weight I would just fine the fighter as the UFC does...Two failures wether successive or not, and I'd launch a disciplinary aswell.
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  #35  
Old 02-23-2013, 01:56 PM
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The Disciplinary Procedures would be as follows

File Notation for minor offenses not warrenting a hearing. Two Notations within Six Months requires a Disciplinary Hearing (Done for such actions as failure to turn up to arranged promotional event, Failure to make weight etc.

First Disciplinary Hearing usually results in Verbal Warning if upheld...but serverity can warrent a First Written Warning at the companies descretion (Three non consecutive losses)

Second Disciplinary Hearing, for the SAME REASON AS A FIRST Hearing, will result in a First Written Warning. This might be reached for a serious breach without a Verbal Warning where required (Fourth Aquired Loss)

Investigation (The suspension of Fighters under drugs offenses, or criminal offenses, the results of which may lead to anything from a Verbal, to a Final Written Warning)

Final Written Warning. To be used as a first resort ONLY in the case of Gross Misconduct, Or for issues specifically stated in the original contract (Three losses in a row, or Five Aquired Losses, upheld by different disciplinaries)

The rules for these are Civil Employment Law. The Accused may be accompanied by another member of Staff where conflict of interest doesnt exist, who may advise them, and speak to them, but NOT address the Pannel. This person keeps notes of procedings which are kept as evidence incase the Accused claims wrongful dismissal.

The Pannel includes the Prosecuting member of the Executive, and One other Non executive person chosen at random. These will either Reject or Uphold the Prosecution, on the basis of Witness Reports, called by either party, and reviewal of archive fight footage where required....the judgement is based not on evidence, but on working hypothesis.
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  #36  
Old 02-23-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kevint13 View Post
1) If their contract stated that they would only fight in the UK then that might hold water, but being that these fighters can potentially fight all over the world.


2)I think this has turned into a discrepancy in cultures from one country to another and rather than trying to understand we are just bashing the other country. I won't get into this, so I am done.
1) That will be the excuse no doubt used...when the truth is, they dont want the workers to have the rights that England provides for them, because that would stop the UFC from acting rogue

2) It is a descrepancy between cultures...and whilst the UFC opporate under yours...what culture do they think British Fighters opporate under?

They may be completely unaware of just how bad what they have done is viewed like in England. It maybe more a case of thoughtlessness...rather then malice....for once the UFC have gone and done something which to them and their American fighters is perfectly acceptable...but viewed as disgraceful from a non american point of view. Whilst that may not matter to you, or to an American fighter....it SHOULD matter to the UFC IF they want to keep this market....this is why if you want to be a global company, you have to do cultural market research.

I've enjoyed our discussion and hope you dont hate me for anything ive said. Its not my intention to upset you. I simply want to explain how a Briton would not approve of an At Will employer that doesnt act in a fair manner.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:57 PM
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I've enjoyed our discussion and hope you dont hate me for anything ive said. Its not my intention to upset you. I simply want to explain how a Briton would not approve of an At Will employer that doesnt act in a fair manner.
I don't hate you Dave, but I just feel that you are bashing my country. I have not said anything negative about your country or your people, yet you choose to attack ours and generalize us all.

Your explanation makes sense to me and I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like you are open to understanding our side at all, you don't have to agree with us, just see where we are coming from.
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  #38  
Old 02-23-2013, 07:20 PM
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Nobody hates you, Dave, now don't exaggerate!

But Kevin is right that you are bashing our country when you say something like this:

Quote:
ONLY in America, could you even HAVE such an opinion.

This blog is American, Matt and a great majority of his fans here are American and the UFC is an American company. We've been disparaged by the British since day one and - speaking for myself - I don't want to hear it unless I'm reading The Guardian or watching BBC. There's a way to be critical without belittling us or our country, just try a little diplomacy and then everyone will be happy.
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  #39  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kevint13 View Post
I don't hate you Dave, but I just feel that you are bashing my country. I have not said anything negative about your country or your people, yet you choose to attack ours and generalize us all.

Your explanation makes sense to me and I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like you are open to understanding our side at all, you don't have to agree with us, just see where we are coming from.
Sorry if you feel that way. I didnt mean to distress you

I do understand your position...but what the UFC have done to those lads makes me sick. I think that they are morally reprehensable...I find At Will Employers who mistreat their staff as abhorant.

It makes me angry that they will discard good men, but withold crap for no other reason then because they want to. Every Briton knows that Paul Sass has twice the potential, and is twice as exciting as...for example, Dan Hardy...but Dana White has already promised that Dan Hardy is safe...its fine for him to spew hatred at Hughes...one of their own bloody Executives!!...to fight, fail, and be finished....but he is to keep his job...and mr worthless no name...well he can rot on the dole for all Dana White cares.

That attitude is injust, unfair, and polar opposite of anything Moral or Christian.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by flo View Post
Nobody hates you, Dave.
But they do and thats the truth

My problem is that I care for the people that noone else will care for. They have me on their side at least...for all that its worth.

Maybe those fighters will be back...maybe some of them will never be seen again...I supose its a mute point, since the damage is already done.

A Fighter can not undo a loss, a person can not erase a mistake...as the poem goes

Natures first green is gold
Her hardest hue to hold
an early leaf - a flower
but only for an hour
then leaf subsides to leaf
so Eden sank down to grief
As Dawn goes on to Day
Nothing Gold Can Stay.
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