At Least 26 Dead in Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School

[Play The Man]

Originally Posted by BradW

so you are comparing this to 911 ? and the bombing of the federal building ?...seriously ?...wow...and you think its a good thing this guy killed 20 children with an assault rifle ?

tell me something..why do you feel a need to have access to an assault rifle ?
is that the best thing for hunting ? or you just like the idea of being able to kill a lot of people in a hurry...

Originally Posted by BradW

you should read the whole thread instead of cherry picking then maybe you would understand i was just replying to a comment that was directed towards me.

do you really think assault rifles are going to protect you from your government ?
one of the most lethal killing machines in the world is run by your government....you and your assault rifles wouldn't stand a chance...but feel free to dream on just the same.

In the 1980s and 1990s, Korean immigrants owned small grocery stores in big cities, including NY and Los Angeles. In many cases, the stores were in black ghettos. The immigrants were not rich. The store was their only asset. Many lived above the store in a small apartment. Some lived in a storeroom in the back. They worked incredibly long hours. Their children would do their homework in the storeroom and help run the store. Instead of appreciation, their hard work was met by envy and racial hatred by the black population. The rapper Ice Cube even wrote a song about them, Black Korea:

Everytime I wanna go get a *uckin' brew
I gotta go down to the store with the two
Oriental one-penny countin' *other*uckers
They make a *igga mad enough to cause a little ruckus

Thinkin' every brother in the world's out to take
So they watch every damn move that I make
They hope I don't pull out a gat and try to rob
They funky little store, but *itch, I got a job

{Look you little Chinese *other*ucker
I ain't tryin' to steal none of yo' *hit, leave me alone}

Yo yo, check it out
So don't follow me, up and down your market
Or your little chop suey *ss will be a target of the nationwide boycott
Juice with the people, that's what the boy got

So pay respect to the black fist
Or we'll burn your store, right down to a crisp
And then we'll see ya
'Cause you can't turn the ghetto, into Black Korea

*sshole, *uck you


Read more: ICE CUBE - BLACK KOREA LYRICS

(Funny how Ice Cube is allowed to make children's movies and nobody ever calls him out on it - some minorities are allowed protection, some not)
When the Rodney King riots broke out, the black mobs started targeting the Korean stores. The Korean store owners pulled out "assault rifles" and stood on the rooves of their stores. This show of force, in many cases, prevented their stores from being torched and their wives and children being burned or beaten to death. Unfortunately, dozens of other people were not so fortunate. I have no doubt, whatsoever, that "assault rifles" saved many lives that day. (defending a store against a riotous mob with a handgun, hunting rifle, or shotgun would be better than nothing, but not as effective).

In a few months, there is going to be a trial of the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. If Zimmerman is acquitted, we will likely see nationwide riots in black ghettos. If, God forbid, President Obama were to be the victim of a crazy assassin, we would likely see nationwide riots in black ghettos. I hope nothing like this happens, but you must agree that it is not science fiction . . . it is in the realm of possibility.

As an aside, fast forward 20 years: the child of the Korean grocer who spent his childhood doing homework in a crowded storeroom is now a doctor. His parents are living in his beautiful home in the suburbs. Their store was closed long years ago. The black bigots got their way. The children of the black bigots are still living in the ghetto. Ice Cube lives in a mansion and gets his produce from Whole Foods. Michelle Obama is complaining about "food deserts" and the lack of grocery stores in the ghetto.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Play The Man

Fifty years ago, the mortality rates for an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest were dismal. They still aren't great, but there has been improvement with a shift to a "first responder" emphasis on CPR and AED use amongst laymen. A non-medical bystander doesn't need to know anything about medicine or surgery; they just have to call 911 and start CPR. It isn't perfect. It doesn't always work, but it was an improvement on the past. The issue is time and distance. If the bystander on the scene can keep the patient alive for 5-10 minutes until an ambulance arrives, there is at least a chance. In these shootings, it takes the police at least 10 minutes or more to respond. Since Columbine, they no longer stay back and contain; they rush in to confront. The schools have to stop or slow down the shooter for at least 10 minutes. Why not at least try to arm a few school personnel in a few schools as a pilot program to test feasibility? Biometric safes keyed to fingerprints would secure the guns to a few trained volunteers. Alternatively, a few trustworthy community volunteers could walk the grounds during the day as armed guards. There are certain careers in this society in which we place a great deal of trust - police, pilots, firemen, career soldiers,etc. Many of these men (mostly men) retire in their 50's or early 60's. They are still in good health and could handle a firearm. In exchange for their service as school security, the legislature could make them exempt from all income and property tax. They would receive tax avoidance rather than a salary. Equipment could be provided by donations.

I totally agree. People can retire from the military as young as 33 years old. There is no reason someone that age can't still handle themselves in a physical confrontation. I've read that a system like this is in place for Israeli public schools, to protect them from attack by Palestinian terrorists. As a result, the instances of school shootings in Israel are almost non-existant.

I believe that these shooters want to see people cowering in fear as they approach. It likely gives them a sense of power and control that they are missing in their life. If they knew that there was any chance at all of meeting an armed resistance, then they would likely choose another target.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

thats great and all .. but there are thousands of schools ... i am not saying the price is not worth paying .. but it ain't gonna happen .... and teachers trained in using guns and locked guns in cabinets is another unreasonable/far-fetched idea ... its probably best to tackle the issue from the root, which is why are these deranged people getting their hands on guns and going postal ... who knows if there is a solution .... when there is a abvious issue with gun violence in the US ... the US crime rate isn't that bad .. and ranks with most developed nations .. but when is comes to deaths via guns, the US is in the same boat as third world nations ... there is obviously an issue, its just figuring it out ..

Our kids' lives are worth whatever it costs to improve security. I'm for experienced people who know what they're doing being on site armed and ready to defend and kill. I don't think the idea of keeping loaded weapons in locked cabinets for teachers and staff will fly though. I'm sure there are lots of retired policemen and military people who could do the job.

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by Play The Man

This is the issue: http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...kable.html?m=1

Heartbreaking. They're all over the gun issue already, but I doubt you'll hear the President or Congress addressing this problem or doing anything to help this poor woman and her son, and all the others like them who desperately need help and support.

Originally Posted by Play The Man

Fifty years ago, the mortality rates for an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest were dismal. They still aren't great, but there has been improvement with a shift to a "first responder" emphasis on CPR and AED use amongst laymen. A non-medical bystander doesn't need to know anything about medicine or surgery; they just have to call 911 and start CPR. It isn't perfect. It doesn't always work, but it was an improvement on the past. The issue is time and distance. If the bystander on the scene can keep the patient alive for 5-10 minutes until an ambulance arrives, there is at least a chance. In these shootings, it takes the police at least 10 minutes or more to respond. Since Columbine, they no longer stay back and contain; they rush in to confront. The schools have to stop or slow down the shooter for at least 10 minutes. Why not at least try to arm a few school personnel in a few schools as a pilot program to test feasibility? Biometric safes keyed to fingerprints would secure the guns to a few trained volunteers. Alternatively, a few trustworthy community volunteers could walk the grounds during the day as armed guards. There are certain careers in this society in which we place a great deal of trust - police, pilots, firemen, career soldiers,etc. Many of these men (mostly men) retire in their 50's or early 60's. They are still in good health and could handle a firearm. In exchange for their service as school security, the legislature could make them exempt from all income and property tax. They would receive tax avoidance rather than a salary. Equipment could be provided by donations.

Can it be changed or overidden in the case where those people were absent or gone, or, what if they are downed in an attack before they can get to the safe?

Originally Posted by NateR

I totally agree. People can retire from the military as young as 33 years old. There is no reason someone that age can't still handle themselves in a physical confrontation. I've read that a system like this is in place for Israeli public schools, to protect them from attack by Palestinian terrorists. As a result, the instances of school shootings in Israel are almost non-existant.

I believe that these shooters want to see people cowering in fear as they approach. It likely gives them a sense of power and control that they are missing in their life. If they knew that there was any chance at all of meeting an armed resistance, then they would likely choose another target.

I just heard tonight that the Aurora, CO, shooter had gone to 2 or 3 other theaters before going to that last one because the other theaters allowed conceal and carry in their theaters.

[adamt]

I don't know why every teacher in the whole country couldn't be armed with some pepper spray, the kind that fogs for bears. who cares if some kids get peppered too if it meant it would stop, deter or slow down an Adam Lansza.

it's good enough for Dog the bounty hunter

Originally Posted by Play The Man

In the 1980s and 1990s, Korean immigrants owned small grocery stores in big cities, including NY and Los Angeles. In many cases, the stores were in black ghettos. The immigrants were not rich. The store was their only asset. Many lived above the store in a small apartment. Some lived in a storeroom in the back. They worked incredibly long hours. Their children would do their homework in the storeroom and help run the store. Instead of appreciation, their hard work was met by envy and racial hatred by the black population. The rapper Ice Cube even wrote a song about them, Black Korea:



(Funny how Ice Cube is allowed to make children's movies and nobody ever calls him out on it - some minorities are allowed protection, some not)
When the Rodney King riots broke out, the black mobs started targeting the Korean stores. The Korean store owners pulled out "assault rifles" and stood on the rooves of their stores. This show of force, in many cases, prevented their stores from being torched and their wives and children being burned or beaten to death. Unfortunately, dozens of other people were not so fortunate. I have no doubt, whatsoever, that "assault rifles" saved many lives that day. (defending a store against a riotous mob with a handgun, hunting rifle, or shotgun would be better than nothing, but not as effective).

In a few months, there is going to be a trial of the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. If Zimmerman is acquitted, we will likely see nationwide riots in black ghettos. If, God forbid, President Obama were to be the victim of a crazy assassin, we would likely see nationwide riots in black ghettos. I hope nothing like this happens, but you must agree that it is not science fiction . . . it is in the realm of possibility.

As an aside, fast forward 20 years: the child of the Korean grocer who spent his childhood doing homework in a crowded storeroom is now a doctor. His parents are living in his beautiful home in the suburbs. Their store was closed long years ago. The black bigots got their way. The children of the black bigots are still living in the ghetto. Ice Cube lives in a mansion and gets his produce from Whole Foods. Michelle Obama is complaining about "food deserts" and the lack of grocery stores in the ghetto.

+100

[NateR]

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

LOL .. you mean the first thing you did was come into this thread and offer condolences? no .. mike started talking about teachers being armed and you piped in about how you agree ... so i find it funny you are talking about mourning when the first thing you did was come in and start talking about your pro-gun views ... i said in another thread, people on here can only agree with nate or they get sent to the corner ... careful people nates on the war path

It has nothing to do with that. I just want to ensure that everybody on this site feels that they are able to contribute to the discussion without being insulted and shouted-down by some over-opinionated Canadian who thinks he has all the answers.

I gave BradW the opportunity to provide some sources to back up his claims, but he didn't want to do that. It was clear that all he wanted to do was ridicule anyone who disagreed with him. It's a pattern of behavior from him that I've seen repeated year after year in these kinds of hot topics. So, for the sake of everybody else on the forum, I decided that he needed a few days to cool off before he was allowed to participate again.

[Play The Man]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

Can it be changed or overidden in the case where those people were absent or gone, or, what if they are downed in an attack before they could get to the safe?

I suppose it would depend on the model. I have a biometric fingerprint handgun safe. In an emergency, I can be armed in literally seconds. It is specific to my fingerprint so, God forbid, my kids couldn't open it. It has a lock for a physical metal key as well. My model can accept at least a dozen fingerprints in its memory and it is 5-year-old technology. I'm sure they have biometric fingerprint safes that can remember many, many different fingerprints. Old fingerprints can be deleted. New fingerprints can be added.

[Play The Man]

It isn't making the national news, but at the Portland mall shooting last week, a man at the mall had a concealed gun and probably limited the number of casualties: http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.
"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.
The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.
"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."
The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."

[TENNESSEAN]

CT already has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. I think California has the strictest, we all know there is no gun violence in Cali.

[flo]

Originally Posted by adamt

surely we have all seen the other school tragedy yesterday where 22 kids were stabbed in china,

should we ban knives???

Maybe we should anticipate tragedies. For instance, what if someone ran into a school classroom with gasoline and attempted to sling it around and set it on fire? To prevent that scenario from happening, maybe we should ban gasoline.


one last thought..... if guns are banned, shouldn't they be banned from movies and video games too? Tom cruise delayed the opening of jack reacher today, but shouldn't hollywoods glorification of death and evil and murder be permanently delayed? why don't we call for gun censorship before banning guns.... how many people would go for that? I haven't seen it, but correct me if I am wrong, but movies like the hunger games are derived from pure evil
and they are cheered on by society

Right on, Adam.

Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke

very sad indeeed .. imo its too late to ban guns .. there are way too many ... and it makes the gov't a lot of money ... plus, its not the guns .. its the culture ...

I totally agree, rnc.

That said, although I don't necessarily agree with Brad, I think it's important to hear everyone's thoughts about this, all input is valuable. I think the discussion was very civil. I hope you let Brad take part, Nate.

We've been largely on a news black-out since Saturday because the media and politicians are so exploiting this tragedy. That's also sick, IMO. One thing I've read that seems balanced and thoughtful was Ben Stein's take on it.

Here's the link from The American Spectator, it's short and very worth the time to read.