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  #11  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Blade
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Originally Posted by Vizion View Post
Here's a Bible verse for you!

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What you "feel" means nothing. Whether the person who committed suicide was SAVED is ALL that matters. You have absolutely zero influence in whether they go to Heaven - not trying to insult you, just saying. People struggle, whether you kill yourself or die of natural causes we ALL have deep struggles within. God OWES us nothing. God can change you, He can do anything. But God does not change FOR YOU. We play be HIS RULE BOOK, not some set of rules we make ourselves.
Awww you hurt my feelings Oh wait...nah you didn't. Sorry but it's gonna take more than a bit of glorified reported speech to change my feelings. Not trying to insult you, just saying.
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  #12  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:23 AM
adamt adamt is offline
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suicide is self murder, so anything said about suicide should go for murder as well....

do murderers automatically go to hell?
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  #13  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:37 AM
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Vizion Vizion is offline
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
Awww you hurt my feelings Oh wait...nah you didn't. Sorry but it's gonna take more than a bit of glorified reported speech to change my feelings. Not trying to insult you, just saying.
Don't be on the defensive!

Glorified speech? What are you on about??? Attack the argument, do not resort to attacking the arguer personally.

What have I said that is wrong?

explain.
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  #14  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:41 AM
Blade
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Originally Posted by Vizion View Post
Don't be on the defensive!

Glorified speech? What are you on about??? Attack the argument, do not resort to attacking the arguer personally.

What have I said that is wrong?

explain.
lol I wasn't attacking you personally, the 'glorified reported speech' referred to the quote you posted that is basically someone else saying what Jesus may have said.
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  #15  
Old 01-09-2010, 12:44 AM
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Vizion Vizion is offline
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
lol I wasn't attacking you personally, the 'glorified reported speech' referred to the quote you posted that is basically someone else saying what Jesus may have said.
Good, I can't stand wimps.

Now, about that verse. So now I know you are a non-believer. Yet, you believe in God, yes?

Where do you gather these "feelings" from? You say you don't "feel" God would send a person such as this to hell, from where do you derive such an intimate understanding of the nature of God?
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2010, 01:32 AM
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NateR NateR is offline
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do murderers automatically go to hell?
Well that begs the question, is a born-again Christian capable of committing murder? I would say most definitely yes. I can think of plenty of nightmare scenarios that would push any man over the edge within seconds and before he had the chance to consider the consequences of his actions.

So would that Christian lose his salvation after that? I don't think so and I say this because of Psalm 51:11-12
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

Psalm 51 is a prayer of repentance that was written by David after he committed adultery with Bathsheba, tried to cover it up by murdering Uriah, and only admitted his sin when he was confronted face-to-face by Nathan the prophet.

It was over 9 months between David adultery and being publicly called out by Nathan. So you would think, if he could lose his salvation, that he would have lost it immediately after sleeping with Bathsheba. However, in verse 11, he pleads for GOD to not cast him from His presence and to not take His Holy Spirit. If David had lost his salvation, then shouldn't he be asking to have the Holy Spirit returned, instead of pleading that it not be taken?

(Now keep in mind that in the OT days, there was no permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because Christ had not come yet.)

However, verse 12 is the clincher. After he commits these sins and has spent almost a year covering them up, does David ask GOD to restore his salvation? No! He asks GOD to restore the joy of his salvation. Even after he had committed these horrible crimes, David still understood that he was saved no matter what. He had just lost the joy of his salvation, not the actual salvation.

A good allegory would be two brothers who are angry with each other (for whatever reason) and are holding a grudge against each other that lasts for months or even years. During that time, there is no joy in their relationship because whatever the offense was has never been dealt with. However, that doesn't change the fact that they are still brothers. The relationship still exists, but they can't enjoy it because of the grudge.

So are we to believe that our Heavenly relationship with GOD is weaker and less permanent than our earthly relationships with each other?
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