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  #111  
Old 11-11-2009, 01:59 AM
shon8121
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
Use the emoticons if you plan on not being taken seriously
Yeah Time 2001 cover boy. Not proof at all and not complete either. Try again. They theorize this is a human ancestor but that logic is faulty because one must presume the theory of evoutlion is true and that is not true science. You cannot enter an experiment with rose colored glasses. You must stay objective and you cannot manipulate the experiment to answer your hyposthesis.

Yeah and I clearly showed you were wrong with basic grammatical structure. It does nto say demons caused the illness you are lying and making things up.
Would you write an article and tell your reader to google it and expect to be taken seriously? You made the claim you have the burden of proof to provide evidence that we can accept or refute. I thought you were a sceintitist.

In red above
Interestingly enough, I am not a Scientist, but thanks for assuming!
Last time I checked... Evolution has been a Theory in Falsifiability "mode" for... about 150 years now. If you weren't sure, that means its accepted by the consensus of the eminent Scientists so it's as much a fact as... Gravity. Oh wait. It's more so a fact because we know more about the mechanics behind Evolution than we do for Gravity (which is also accompanied by a Theory if you decided to skip some prior posts).
So, a Hypothesis is certainly not what we are dealing with when it comes to Evolution, but nice try. If you are going to use Scientific Terms, lets use them according to what the Scientists dictate, shall we?
Oh wait a minute. I need an Emoticon to be taken seriously.
There we go!

Weird how you proved me wrong on the verses thing. I mean, before Germ Theory and modern medicine, it was commonly accepted that Demons caused Illnesses... how on Earth could I and the Church leaders of the past get it SO wrong? Dang it.
Look. I didn't write your Bible. And in fact, there have been more recent Translations because the Kings James Version wasn't exactly spot on. So what if something crept into it that shouldn't have been there? Like the verses about Unicorns and Cockatrices? In the New Standard Revised Edition, maybe it takes care of the whole Demons causing illness thing like when it got rid of faulty translations involving those mythical creatures.
Now please, can I "run" away into a personal message with you? I don't want to become guilty of the very thing I just assured TexasRN I wasn't going to do... even though I'm not bashing the Religion, just making note of a verse.
If thats not your interpretation of those verses, thats fine, but thats why we have so many sects of Christianity, because no one can seem to agree on a lot of it.

Last but not least, Ardipithicus is fully intact. Why don't you do a more recent check than 8 years ago? You know what else happened recently? They discovered thanks to sequencing Mitochondrial DNA that Neanderthals have not contributed to the Gene pool of the modern Human population. Can you guess what that means?! It's a whole other "Human" race complete with it's own awesome features, like increased bone density, more muscle mass, and larger brains that modern Humans have! What do you know?! Evolution caused two "Human" types of Species to Evolve somewhat separately... but our Ancestors the Cro-Magnons outcompeted the Neanderthals for Territory and food because they were more social and better adapted to the warming climate.

Oh, and uh... I provided the websites, now you go research. Try it for once. It's pretty fun.
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  #112  
Old 11-11-2009, 02:07 AM
shon8121
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
What did gravity evolve from?
Oh, forgot about you... sorry.
"mscomc" pretty much covered this already, but I have some additional things to address.

The Theory of Evolution only has to do with the change a population of Organisms experience over time. It's strickly Biological.

When it comes to the origin of the fundamental forces of our Universe, that has to do with the Big Bang Theory which is a completely different subject entirely. It's also accepted by the Concensus of Scientists as a fact especially with the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation and the fact that Astronomers have physically observed (over time) our Universe expanding at an increasing rate. So in essense, something is causing our Universe to expand more and more rapidly as time goes on.

The Big Bang was first put forth by George Lamaitre who on top of being a Scientist was, by the way, a Bible believing Catholic. He was searching for an Origin to the Universe. So I think that the Big Bang, along with Evolution is compatible with Christianity.
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  #113  
Old 11-11-2009, 02:43 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by shon8121 View Post
Interestingly enough, I am not a Scientist, but thanks for assuming!
Last time I checked... Evolution has been a Theory in Falsifiability "mode" for... about 150 years now. If you weren't sure, that means its accepted by the consensus of the eminent Scientists so it's as much a fact as... Gravity. Oh wait. It's more so a fact because we know more about the mechanics behind Evolution than we do for Gravity (which is also accompanied by a Theory if you decided to skip some prior posts).
So, a Hypothesis is certainly not what we are dealing with when it comes to Evolution, but nice try. If you are going to use Scientific Terms, lets use them according to what the Scientists dictate, shall we?
Oh wait a minute. I need an Emoticon to be taken seriously.
There we go!

Weird how you proved me wrong on the verses thing. I mean, before Germ Theory and modern medicine, it was commonly accepted that Demons caused Illnesses... how on Earth could I and the Church leaders of the past get it SO wrong? Dang it.That was Catholic dogma not scripture so if you are going to use biblical terms then you must do so as the bible dictates
Look. I didn't write your Bible. And in fact, there have been more recent Translations because the Kings James Version wasn't exactly spot on. So what if something crept into it that shouldn't have been there? Like the verses about Unicorns and Cockatrices? In the New Standard Revised Edition, maybe it takes care of the whole Demons causing illness thing like when it got rid of faulty translations involving those mythical creatures.
Now please, can I "run" away into a personal message with you? I don't want to become guilty of the very thing I just assured TexasRN I wasn't going to do... even though I'm not bashing the Religion, just making note of a verse.I can care what the English translations say I can read the Greek manuscripts. You cannot make a doctrine based on the English version and the point is you said the bible claimed illness was caused by demons. That is not true. Illness was caused by sin entering into the world and from that point on mankind began to die in the flesh. You posted scripture and were refuted soundly and no you make excuses. Just admit you are wrong and have no clue because your faith is in the scientific method and not the creator.
If thats not your interpretation of those verses, thats fine, but thats why we have so many sects of Christianity, because no one can seem to agree on a lot of it.It is not my interpretation it is called rules of grammar. Spend so more time in English class and less in science class. The rules are same in English as well.

Last but not least, Ardipithicus is fully intact. Why don't you do a more recent check than 8 years ago? You know what else happened recently? They discovered thanks to sequencing Mitochondrial DNA that Neanderthals have not contributed to the Gene pool of the modern Human population. Can you guess what that means?! It's a whole other "Human" race complete with it's own awesome features, like increased bone density, more muscle mass, and larger brains that modern Humans have! What do you know?! Evolution caused two "Human" types of Species to Evolve somewhat separately... but our Ancestors the Cro-Magnons outcompeted the Neanderthals for Territory and food because they were more social and better adapted to the warming climate.My gosh how much propaganda kool aid do you drink everyday. Also adaption is not what were are talking about, stop trying to skirt the issue

Oh, and uh... I provided the websites, now you go research. Try it for once. It's pretty fun.
You provided general websites but not direct quotes also they need to be from peer reviewed publication and not a random website or a popular magazine because those have low to no standards of integrity.. So until you can do that you are full of it. My other responses are in red above.
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  #114  
Old 11-11-2009, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by shon8121 View Post

There were a lot of things I found a little confusing in your post, but overall the only major issue I would have is the timeline... at least the way I undertsood it. You claimed the more literal interpretation of the Bible having the Earth show up roughly 6,000 years ago which wouldn't give enough time for things to Evolve from a single celled organism to the variety we see today.
But yeah, otherwise, I like peeps like you who don't really care how god did it... just that he did do it.
*shrug*
No I said that Genesis takes place in 4004BC, I said that backdated time goes back to the Big Bang before that. The Creation Event happened in the middle of Creation, NOT at its start.

Did you even bother drawring the Triangle...coz if you had you would understand perfectly...so much for actually wanting serious topics of debate. You're a dissapointing Fraud
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  #115  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:10 AM
shon8121
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
No I said that Genesis takes place in 4004BC, I said that backdated time goes back to the Big Bang before that. The Creation Event happened in the middle of Creation, NOT at its start.

Did you even bother drawring the Triangle...coz if you had you would understand perfectly...so much for actually wanting serious topics of debate. You're a dissapointing Fraud
Fraud? Did I not say I was confused by what you said?
And no, I didn't draw the Triangle. My bad. I have no paper or pens nearby.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris F
That was Catholic dogma not scripture so if you are going to use biblical terms then you must do so as the bible dictates.
I can care what the English translations say I can read the Greek manuscripts. You cannot make a doctrine based on the English version and the point is you said the bible claimed illness was caused by demons. That is not true. Illness was caused by sin entering into the world and from that point on mankind began to die in the flesh. You posted scripture and were refuted soundly and no you make excuses. Just admit you are wrong and have no clue because your faith is in the scientific method and not the creator.
It is not my interpretation it is called rules of grammar. Spend so more time in English class and less in science class. The rules are same in English as well.
My gosh how much propaganda kool aid do you drink everyday. Also adaption is not what were are talking about, stop trying to skirt the issue
*sigh*
1.) With contradictory verses on such important things like who Jesus was, what better source am I to get information from than Church Leaders themselves from the various Sects of Christianity?
2.) Uh... Haha, there are still Christians today that believe Demons cause Illnesses... especially Mental Illnesses. You take up your problem with them.
Oh and uh... it's not Faith in the Scientific Method, it's "Trust". Big difference, you English Major you.
3.) Lets talk about skirting the issue, you addressed NOT ONE of my Evolutionary points. And if you had actually read what I wrote, you'd understand that our Ancestors the Cro-Magnons evolved to be adapted to a warmer climate in Africa and when the Ice Age receeded in Europe, they migrated. Since the Recession of the Ice Age happened relatively quickly, Neanderthals technically either had to "adapt" or die out... and they ended up dying out because the Cro-Magnons were more well adapted to that type of environment already and outcompeted the Neanderthals for food and territory.
I very specifically talked about Evolution. I mentioned the Neanderthals having clearly evolved from a common Ancestor with Humans but had Evolved separately in Europe to the cold harsh climate there and they didn't contribute any genes to the modern Human population... possibly because they couldn't interbreed with our Ancestors.
Care to tackle the Evolution subject in the "Theory of Evolution" Thread now big guy?
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  #116  
Old 11-12-2009, 03:48 AM
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Neezar Neezar is offline
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Originally Posted by shon8121 View Post
Oh, forgot about you... sorry.
Nice!

However, we both know that you didn't forget about me for a second.
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  #117  
Old 11-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Chris F
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Originally Posted by shon8121 View Post
Fraud? Did I not say I was confused by what you said?
And no, I didn't draw the Triangle. My bad. I have no paper or pens nearby.




*sigh*
1.) With contradictory verses on such important things like who Jesus was, what better source am I to get information from than Church Leaders themselves from the various Sects of Christianity?
2.) Uh... Haha, there are still Christians today that believe Demons cause Illnesses... especially Mental Illnesses. You take up your problem with them.
Oh and uh... it's not Faith in the Scientific Method, it's "Trust". Big difference, you English Major you.
3.) Lets talk about skirting the issue, you addressed NOT ONE of my Evolutionary points. And if you had actually read what I wrote, you'd understand that our Ancestors the Cro-Magnons evolved to be adapted to a warmer climate in Africa and when the Ice Age receeded in Europe, they migrated. Since the Recession of the Ice Age happened relatively quickly, Neanderthals technically either had to "adapt" or die out... and they ended up dying out because the Cro-Magnons were more well adapted to that type of environment already and outcompeted the Neanderthals for food and territory.
I very specifically talked about Evolution. I mentioned the Neanderthals having clearly evolved from a common Ancestor with Humans but had Evolved separately in Europe to the cold harsh climate there and they didn't contribute any genes to the modern Human population... possibly because they couldn't interbreed with our Ancestors.
Care to tackle the Evolution subject in the "Theory of Evolution" Thread now big guy?
You see you want us to think like you and when we do not you whine. There is nothing to talk about the theory of evoultion because it is science fiction and a waste of thread space. So if someone else prefer to swallow your propaganda then they can waste their time with you but since you refuse to provide any citations at all I cannot take you as a serious academic. Good day!
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  #118  
Old 11-12-2009, 09:01 PM
mscomc
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
You see you want us to think like you and when we do not you whine. There is nothing to talk about the theory of evoultion because it is science fiction and a waste of thread space. So if someone else prefer to swallow your propaganda then they can waste their time with you but since you refuse to provide any citations at all I cannot take you as a serious academic. Good day!
I gave a citation for how chickens may have come from lizards.....

I also gave some examples of benefical mutations, that may have contributed to our evolution (but maybe not on a macro scale, but defninetly micro)

What is your opinion on those? Just curious is all
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  #119  
Old 11-12-2009, 09:10 PM
Buzzard
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Originally Posted by Chris F View Post
You see you want us to think like you and when we do not you whine. There is nothing to talk about the theory of evoultion because it is science fiction and a waste of thread space. So if someone else prefer to swallow your propaganda then they can waste their time with you but since you refuse to provide any citations at all I cannot take you as a serious academic. Good day!
Can you provide any scientific citations to disprove the theory of evolution and/or to prove your belief of the earth being only 6000 years old? Can you provide scientific citations to back any of your beliefs?

You call the theory of evolution science fiction yet you believe in things that can't be proven, haven't been proven and are far more out there as far as beliefs go. You seem to always fall back on "faith" as being the answer. That isn't the answer for any of it yet you cling to it so very tightly. How many drinks of water did it take for you to swallow your propaganda pill?

If points were being scored on who brought what to the table, you would clearly be losing. Yeah, just my take though I am looking at what was presented and trying to be unbiased in my opinion. Even when I was a believer I couldn't believe some of the things that were put out in front of me no matter how hard I tried.

It's too bad shon8121 isn't able to defend his position here. I have been enjoying reading the threads and responses given by both sides.
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  #120  
Old 11-12-2009, 09:40 PM
CAVEMAN
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Did anyone look at the link I posted on page 10 of this debate!

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm

Just curious as to what you all think?
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