Sad sign of the times

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

No, I believe he's opened direct talks.

This means him, or his envoys will be able to talk directly to the Irainians..how America ever thinks it can solve anything without at least being able to talk to the Enemy I dont know.

Please show me a source to back up that claim. Like I said, simply making a statement that Iran basically balks at is NOT direct talks.

Dave, there is no talking to the Iranians. Don't you think if we could have worked this problem out a long time ago we would have? We are talking about IRAN, not a civilized nation.

[NateR]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

No, I believe he's opened direct talks.

This means him, or his envoys will be able to talk directly to the Irainians..how America ever thinks it can solve anything without at least being able to talk to the Enemy I dont know.

No, he hasn't. The Iranians are not willing to talk.

[Tyburn]

Of course they will talk...they just wont aggree to change their minds

I read it in the paper.

He hasnt sat down with them yet, but he's opened up the diplomatic channels...and they are willing to talk to him...of course they are hoping to make America change its mind...that is why for the first time the Iranians sent a Congratulatory note to him when he won the Presidency.

Now whether they ever do actually talk, will probably depend on when they have something to talk about, the point is he has opened Diplomatic Channels. It is an achievement even if it comes to nothing...

What you dont seem to understand is that for the first time your Enemies are willing to speak with the Administration because it is new, and liberal, they are in effect trying to win the Administration over to their views. But I'm sure Obama knows that....Russia is behaving in exactly the same way even when Obama said he still plans to go ahead with Starwars...they suddenly removed Missiles from the planned boarder in the hope they can talk him out of it.

It he won the vote by being good at speaking, perhaps he CAN delude your enemies by speech aswell.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake

Please show me a source to back up that claim. Like I said, simply making a statement that Iran basically balks at is NOT direct talks.

Dave, there is no talking to the Iranians. Don't you think if we could have worked this problem out a long time ago we would have? We are talking about IRAN, not a civilized nation.

No...JB I dont

When you say "work this problem out" you dont mean discuss and come to a decision, you mean "when Iran does what we say" The problem with this is Iran is doing something within itself. Who has authority over any soverign nation but themselves.

Did anyone stop you from making Nuclear Bombs?? Does anyone have the right to tell another Country what to do in its homeland? The fact they dont immediately give into your demands does not make them "uncivilized" at all. They might be third world, and they might be ruthless and evil...but "uncivilized" They are not a hoard of Barbarians, they are quite a united front, they know what they want, and they know what their rights as a Soverign Nation are.

Dont dehumanize or belittle your enemies, they dont shrink in reality when you write them off as fools. KNOW your enemies. Do you know anything about Iran? Dont under-estimate them. These are not fools, they are not Iraq, and they are not Afghanistan, its not a dictatorship whose country is oppressed, or a band of rebels and clans...Iran is industrialized Nation, and verging on Nuclear Capabilities OF THEIR OWN invention. They should be treated as extremely dangerous...unlike Saddam who played sillybeggers but didnt really have the WMD...if Iran had them, I honnestly think you wouldnt be needing the United Nations to confirm that fact....and their target wont be a terror campaign against you...it will be Modern Warfare against Israel.

So you see, these are not uncivilized beasts, anymore then the Nazi Party of 1940s Germany. These are TRUE danger, you will have to use your MINDS and WITS to fight these guys, aswell as your Might. The good thing about this is GOD is on your side. GOD was on our side during the War against Germany. GOD inspired Morals into certain High Ranking Military Nazi in Germany just before the war, and had them Step Aside, so that Fanatics could whisper in Hitlers Ear, rather then true Military Tactitions...and it paid off...When Hitler had driven the British back to the Channel, rather then taking England, which he could have done....the Fanatics whispered, that Russia was for the taking aswell, why not DO BOTH.

GOD also inspired the recluse nation of America who hid behind their long distance, to get angry and to come to our aid right when we needed them.

If this ends in tears...at least GOD is on OUR side and not theres...but dont under-estimate the possibility of diplomacy to get to some of the Elite..If you cant bring a Nation down, do something so they bring themselves down...I dont know the facts, but didnt Iran have a particularly violent Revolution at one point...you know...those Military leaders I told you about in Germany...They came so close to ending the war in 1944...they attempted a Coup

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

No...JB I dont

When you say "work this problem out" you dont mean discuss and come to a decision, you mean "when Iran does what we say" The problem with this is Iran is doing something within itself. Who has authority over any soverign nation but themselves.

Did anyone stop you from making Nuclear Bombs?? Does anyone have the right to tell another Country what to do in its homeland? The fact they dont immediately give into your demands does not make them "uncivilized" at all. They might be third world, and they might be ruthless and evil...but "uncivilized" They are not a hoard of Barbarians, they are quite a united front, they know what they want, and they know what their rights as a Soverign Nation are.

Dont dehumanize or belittle your enemies, they dont shrink in reality when you write them off as fools. KNOW your enemies. Do you know anything about Iran? Dont under-estimate them. These are not fools, they are not Iraq, and they are not Afghanistan, its not a dictatorship whose country is oppressed, or a band of rebels and clans...Iran is industrialized Nation, and verging on Nuclear Capabilities OF THEIR OWN invention. They should be treated as extremely dangerous...unlike Saddam who played sillybeggers but didnt really have the WMD...if Iran had them, I honnestly think you wouldnt be needing the United Nations to confirm that fact....and their target wont be a terror campaign against you...it will be Modern Warfare against Israel.

So you see, these are not uncivilized beasts, anymore then the Nazi Party of 1940s Germany. These are TRUE danger, you will have to use your MINDS and WITS to fight these guys, aswell as your Might. The good thing about this is GOD is on your side. GOD was on our side during the War against Germany. GOD inspired Morals into certain High Ranking Military Nazi in Germany just before the war, and had them Step Aside, so that Fanatics could whisper in Hitlers Ear, rather then true Military Tactitions...and it paid off...When Hitler had driven the British back to the Channel, rather then taking England, which he could have done....the Fanatics whispered, that Russia was for the taking aswell, why not DO BOTH.

GOD also inspired the recluse nation of America who hid behind their long distance, to get angry and to come to our aid right when we needed them.

If this ends in tears...at least GOD is on OUR side and not theres...but dont under-estimate the possibility of diplomacy to get to some of the Elite..If you cant bring a Nation down, do something so they bring themselves down...I dont know the facts, but didnt Iran have a particularly violent Revolution at one point...you know...those Military leaders I told you about in Germany...They came so close to ending the war in 1944...they attempted a Coup

Dave, the bottom line is Iran supports terrorist organizations and is a major part of the problems in the middle east. They may be a sovereign nation, but letting them possess a nuclear weapon is NOT a smart move. The majority of the world seems to agree on that.

I am not against working things out diplomatically, but the reason that has not happened in the last 40 years is because of Iran, not because of us. You and I obviously share different views on what "civilized" is, but in my opinion Iran certainly does not fit the bill. No matter how organized they are.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by JB Rattlesnake

Dave, the bottom line is Iran supports terrorist organizations and is a major part of the problems in the middle east. They may be a sovereign nation, but letting them possess a nuclear weapon is NOT a smart move. The majority of the world seems to agree on that.

I am not against working things out diplomatically, but the reason that has not happened in the last 40 years is because of Iran, not because of us. You and I obviously share different views on what "civilized" is, but in my opinion Iran certainly does not fit the bill. No matter how organized they are.

Are you sure...I thought it was America that called off Diplomacy after somekinda Embassy hostage situation in the 1970s...perhaps I'm wrong about them

I didnt say letting them have nuclear weapons was a clever move. I just think that America cant afford to get this wrong so she should be cautious how she plays things...if that means opening diplomacy, then take the opportunity