Go Back   Matt-Hughes.com Official Forums > General Discussions > The Woodshed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #891  
Old 02-19-2014, 08:12 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

You might also know, the network that filmed this, and puts out a lot of Roman programs, was invented by a modern day contemplative. Once her network became popular in the United States, it caught the attention of the See of Rome itself, and the Curia began an investigation with an interest of taking control, and removing power from the monastry.

Its inventor did a very strange thing, but one I figure a lot of you would applaud. She instigated a Lay Governing body (A non ordained team of Romans) She basically made them promise to keep the network going and then severed all connections between the network and the Monastry.

Effectively, throwing the Network into the laity completely, and beyond the abilities of the Vatican and Roman Curia to control.

How Ironic, that a contemplative should have the foresight to know that a tool such as this, essentially had to be kept away from the very subject of its programming...She would rather give up the project completely and never be involved with it again, rather then let the Pope take charge of it.

It is the way with all Churches I think, that ultimately, politics and powerplay are in abundance even more then the secular world, and of course without the prospect of money...its all about power and control. I know this from my own experiences of working with one. Even multinational capitalistic companies have nothing on the foul play and politics of the Established Denominations...especially not increadibly important Cathedrals.

I know a Bishop who could out-do any Company CEO

Outside of Government/Civil Service and possibly the Armed Forces, there is no place you should be more cautious about then getting involved with a Church...especially if that involves working for one.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #892  
Old 02-25-2014, 09:27 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoFGjEXH4is

The processional for the Installation of the most recent ArchBishop of Westminster. I love the tradition that at the start he has to pray before everyone at the Great West Doors...and as always...MacMillans composition is fabulous!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #893  
Old 04-20-2014, 09:39 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDlUUDoC6UU

So this is the infamous Introit, I Was Glad, based on Psalm 122, performed in The Cathedral Church of Westminster Abbey...in the write up the order of Procession is given, and You'll note two things...firstly, the absence of both His Grace, The Lord Bishop of London, and Primate of The Northern Province, Ebor is also missing...this is unusual considering that this a Service of Thanksgiving for the 60th Anniversary of The Queens coronation...but perhaps they tagged onto the end of an earlier procession. Secondly, notice that in the Liturgical Order, the later you come, the more important you are, notice that the Archbishop of Canterbury is FIRST in the procession, and the entire dean, chapter, and everyone else, including effectively lay canons, are put behind him. This is because the position of a Bishop, no matter how High his Status, is relative to the place he is attending...Now the Abbey does not have a Bishop, instead, effectively, because it is a Royal Pecculiar, HM The Queen is in place of the Bishop as Defender of The Faith...the Chapter and Dean are then effectively taking the place of any diocesian Bishop...In St Pauls, for Example, The Bishop of London Trumps the Archbishop of Canterbury inside the Cathedral...because, it is His Cathedral...anywhere else in the whole world, the roles are switched.

As the procession takes off, note the quandary of the poor Deans Virger...First, he has to directly speak to the Royals, to get Prince Charles to move ahead of the Queen...and then the Dean continue to walk back through the procession to speak to The Queen and the Virger, litterally pulls him, physically to the front before setting off.

The final funny moment is when as they are walking away, The Duke notices some poor cleric stood all on his todd, most likely a member of visiting clergy, or possibly an unwanted chaplain...and the Duke tries to invite the member of Clergy into the procession at his Level. Unbelievable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #894  
Old 04-20-2014, 10:29 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

Looking into the Saquerium I can see that His Grace, The Lord Bishop of London is already present, it looks like he arrived with the Eccumenicals

Just to be clear, the Saquerium is the east end of the Chancel between the Sanctury (which contains the High Altar) in the East, and the Quire in the West

Westminster abbey is unusual in that its Quire begins BEFORE its Transepts...so the Saquerium begins directly after the Crossing, and bizzarly, it also has a Quire Screen that extends half way down the Nave...thats unusual in a Cathedral, that almost always either has a completely enclosed Quire containing everything up to the Rearadross and then a large Retroquire before the Apse...OR they have an open plan Quire, and next to no Retroquire at all.

Almost all Retroquires are converted into Chapels...in Saint Pauls the Retroquire is very small, and its been converted into The American Memorial Chapel infact...these chapels end in the Apse, which is the Eastern curved wall of the Cathedral

You begin with steps at the West End, followed by an optional covered porch, and the Great West Doors, inside you find the Vestuble, and in some Cathedrals, you also find a Narthex, one of the biggest is inside Liverpool Cathedral, its SO large its like a proto-nave its VAST. Beyond that you have the Nave, and going upwards in the Nave you usually have a second tier which is known as a Triforium, where there are big Galleries, probably a library aswell, above that you have the Clerestory which is a tiny high up walkway around the nave, below the Nave you may have a Crypt, or a Charnel House, or an Undercroft...and Undercroft will extend beyond the confines of the church above and probably have external exits outside, Charnel Houses are like Mausoleums, except inside a Church so they will contain caskets, and a Crypt is probably mainly filled with monuments rather then bodies.
at the west end of the Nave you will find the Crossing, this will extend north and south forming the Transepts, and entries to the circular Chapterhouse if the Cathedral is old enough, and maybe the Cloisters if the Cathedral used to be a monastic foundation. North and south Asiles probably run along the Nave aswell, and there could be side chapels.

Any Dome or central tower will be placed right on top of the crossing, and any constructed Altar for the Nave is likely to be placed on a movable Dais at this point.

Beyond the Crossing, further East you find the Quire. Sometimes this has a screen with a gate which you have to pass through, sometimes there is no screen. Either way, there is usually an Ambulatory, which consists of two aisles, one north, one South which go around the outside of the Quire and meet at the Apse. Inside the Quire you have the Stalls, at the East End of the Stalls on the South side, you will find the Cathedra Throne (in a Roman Church the Throne is often right at the East End, touching the Apse. Beyond the throne will be the area between the stalls and the Communion Rail...that is the Saquerium. After the Communion rail you will find The Sanctuary, and together the Quire, Saquerium and Sanctuary compose The Chancel of the Cathedral.

East of that will be the High Altar, it will either be sitting under a huge canopy type structure, known as a Baldekino, OR it will stand infront of a decorative wall covering, which is known as a Rearadross.

Behind the Rearadross will be the RetroQuire...the space behind the High Altar, this will probably be converted into a Chapel which will touch the Apse and form part of the ambulatory

I hasten to add that there will be an many rooms which come off the nave and the ambulatory, called Vestory, that are preparation rooms for priests, and one very important room which comes off the Ambulatory will be known as The Sacristy, which is the preparation area for Communion stuffs, Cyborium, Chalice, Plate, Wafers, Wine, monsterones possibly some Reserve Sacrement

The place will likely also have a Treasury, or at the very least a Strong Room, where it stores valuables like processional crosses, candels, and it will have some place where the Vestments are stored, all the Chasubles and Copes and the likes. It may have Tabernakles which are like a Safe built into the wall of chapels where the Host can be stored, it may also have a pyx...these are strange looking objects that hang from the ceiling suspended above chapel altars, the Host is kept inside and can be gained by lowering the pyx, this is most often where any reserve sacrement is kept
__________________

Last edited by Tyburn; 04-20-2014 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #895  
Old 05-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGy1kNISaR0

Another To The Ends of The Earth exploration
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #896  
Old 05-13-2014, 09:23 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW9Uudkx42g

What I love about this most famous introits...is the fact that they have left that single bell tolling in the background
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #897  
Old 05-20-2014, 09:07 PM
Tyburn's Avatar
Tyburn Tyburn is offline
Angry @ Injustice!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 17,004
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE

One of the most beautiful pieces of choral work...quite well known as well, this is a setting of Psalm 51....The history of the psalm is that King David wrote it after he committed adultery with Bathsheba, and got her Husband moved to the front lines of combat so he would be killed. He eventually realized he had acted inappropriately...and this is, frankly, his apology to God

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones you have crushed rejoice.
9 Hide your face from my sins
and blot out all my iniquity.
10 Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
you who are God my Savior,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.
15 Open my lips, Lord,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 My sacrifice, O God, is[b] a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.
18 May it please you to prosper Zion,
to build up the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then you will delight in the sacrifices of the righteous,
in burnt offerings offered whole;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.