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  #11  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:11 PM
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County Mike County Mike is offline
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Try not to think of it as a "Right to own firearms". Think of it more like "The right to own any means of defense that could currently be available to those trying to harm you."

If there's a chance of someone hitting you with a rock, then you have a right to also own rocks for your protection. You have the right to defend yourself against an attacker so you should automatically have a right to own the same weapons your attacker may own.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Try not to think of it as a "Right to own firearms". Think of it more like "The right to own any means of defense that could currently be available to those trying to harm you."
Now that does make more sense to me

that is NOT a right that our Government offers us. There is restrictions on what we can use to defend ourselves...even with aparatus that really can only be used in self defence.

We can use whatevers to hand...but we must make sure that we do not in any way "hurt" or "injure" or "damage" our attacker....because the Government claims they have, basically, equal rights when it comes to attack and defence
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2014, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flo View Post
Is anyone else reading this as "the right to peruse happiness"? I see it that way every time I look at the thread title.

Yeah, it's a bit ironic that an Englishman would have such a poor grasp of the English language.

Dave, you should probably go pursue a dictionary before you worry about pursuing anything else.

Anyways, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights that every human being has been granted by GOD, not government. Since these are GOD-given rights, then no government or human leader has the authority to violate them.

Of course, other countries have different definitions of human rights, but that's only because all of those other countries are wrong. Duh.
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:57 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Yeah, it's a bit ironic that an Englishman would have such a poor grasp of the English language.

Dave, you should probably go pursue a dictionary before you worry about pursuing anything else.

Anyways, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights that every human being has been granted by GOD, not government. Since these are GOD-given rights, then no government or human leader has the authority to violate them.

Of course, other countries have different definitions of human rights, but that's only because all of those other countries are wrong. Duh.
how do we know these are God-given rights?? they are rights given by man to citizens of the USA
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  #15  
Old 01-29-2014, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
how do we know these are God-given rights?? they are rights given by man to citizens of the USA
Absolutely not. The Founding Fathers believed that these basic human rights were GOD-given and they believed that assertion was supported by the Bible (maybe not in specific verses, but in overall themes present in the Scriptures). It's the entire basis behind the formation of the United States.

How can a person's right to life be something that a government grants to them? That's idiocy. The government can't grant life to anyone.

Did the Canadian government have anything to do with you being born? Is there some kind of official document that a Canadian governing official signed off on allowing you to exist?

If you truly believe that your life is a gift given to you by the country of Canada, then you would also have to accept the fact that your government could take that life from you at any time. What if they came today and said, "Hey, it's no longer convenient for us to allow you to live, so we need to put you to death for the greater good of Canada"? Would you gladly go along with that? If you truly believe that your right to life comes from the government, then you would have to.
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:17 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Absolutely not. The Founding Fathers believed that these basic human rights were GOD-given and they believed that assertion was supported by the Bible (maybe not in specific verses, but in overall themes present in the Scriptures). It's the entire basis behind the formation of the United States.

How can a person's right to life be something that a government grants to them? That's idiocy. The government can't grant life to anyone.

Did the Canadian government have anything to do with you being born? Is there some kind of official document that a Canadian governing official signed off on allowing you to exist?

If you truly believe that your life is a gift given to you by the country of Canada, then you would also have to accept the fact that your government could take that life from you at any time. What if they came today and said, "Hey, it's no longer convenient for us to allow you to live, so we need to put you to death for the greater good of Canada"? Would you gladly go along with that? If you truly believe that your right to life comes from the government, then you would have to.
ok, sure ... you got me with the life part .. but liberty and pursuit of happiness can be taken away from you depending on your gov't ... so in your last paragraph, talking about gov't giving and taking away, it does apply ... people throw the term "god-given" right out there for a lot of things ... i just don't see how they get that ...
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2014, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
ok, sure ... you got me with the life part .. but liberty and pursuit of happiness can be taken away from you depending on your gov't ... so in your last paragraph, talking about gov't giving and taking away, it does apply ... people throw the term "god-given" right out there for a lot of things ... i just don't see how they get that ...
Tyrannical governments can take them away, yes. That's kind of the whole point. Any government that attempts to infringe upon the GOD-given human rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a tyranny.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:19 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Tyrannical governments can take them away, yes. That's kind of the whole point. Any government that attempts to infringe upon the GOD-given human rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a tyranny.
yeah, but how do you put trust in them to come up with this "message" from God when they were even practicing what they were preaching ... slavery wasn't abolished until mid 1800's and some of the founding fathers had slaves themselves? so its hard to say they actually believed people had the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness ...
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2014, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
how do we know these are God-given rights?? they are rights given by man to citizens of the USA
Exactly

So if anyone has the right to happiness...I guess its fine for anyone to do anything they want, at the expense of anyone else...and claim its GOD-Given.

A Company CEO is made happy by maximum profit...and so pays his workers as little as possible...I suppose thats fine?

A Sadist enjoys harming his Wife for fun...I suppose thats fine?

A King expects Loyalty from his Subjects....Well...That was fine until the 1770s

The Truth is...if its not in the Bible, it may not be "GOD Given" and the Bible tells us that we have naught but through Grace...and that GOD is a King...you follow Him...or you suffer eternal death.

The US Constitution, and the DOI are not Scripture, therefore they are fallable...and to say anyone should be able to go after whatever makes them happy, and put no limits on that, leaves the possibility open for Philosophers like Fredrich Nietzsche and those who enjoy some of his more dangerous philosophies like Adolf Hitler for example.
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
yeah, but how do you put trust in them to come up with this "message" from God when they were even practicing what they were preaching ... slavery wasn't abolished until mid 1800's and some of the founding fathers had slaves themselves? so its hard to say they actually believed people had the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness ...
Its worse then that.

All men might be born free...but did those European-American Settlers actually believe that those who were enslaved were anything but animals...and the constitution does not say that these GOD given rights are present for animals...infact, biblically speaking, animals are put on earth to serve man, and for man to take possession of.

This is why Pragmatics matter with the US Constitution....the Words are missleading from a Religious, and Ethnic point of view.
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