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  #21  
Old 01-08-2014, 03:31 AM
adamt adamt is offline
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I can't stand the complete hypocritical stance on judging.

First off, everyone want's to be judged. They just want to only be judged as good. Think about it, when's the last time you heard someone famous say don't judge me. What people really mean to say is 'don't tell me I am wrong", what sodomites mean to say is, don't judge us as wrong, judge us as right, but that is still judging. In fact they are asking you to judge them.....as right. Our entire life is one constant judgment. If some creepy old man showed up acting weird and offered to babysit for you, I would hope you would judge him. Judging is what keeps people safe. If it weren't for judging, there would be no such things as celebrities. Hollywood is based on people who succeeded based on the judgment of millions of people. How can they begin to ask people not to judge.

Secondly, if you read matthew chapter 7 where it says the famous, don't judge lest ye be judged quote, well if you read it a little bit further, Jesus goes on to command us to judge. To be aware of false prophets, but to judge them by their fruits. How can you be aware of false prophets if you don't judge.

Thirdly, seriously, would you want to be judged by me, or do you want to be judged by God? If I tell you sinners go to hell, it's not so bad, but when you hear God tell you sinners go to hell, then it's too late for you. I am not the one who sets universal standards of morality, God is. When people try to say, Hey, I decided I am going to change the rules of morality, they are out of line. They don't get to decide what is good and evil.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:32 AM
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"'Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.' " (Matthew 7:6, NKJV throughout)


If we take that pearl (of wisdom) and cast it (meaning to throw it away without caring where it falls) before "dogs" (a metaphor for someone with an impure or impudent mind) or "swine" (something or someone who is unclean), Jesus warns us that they might "tear you into pieces" (they might distort what we are saying and might even attack us.)

God tells us in the book of Proverbs that there are times when we should be silent and times when we should respond directly to others (especially about God's truth). Jesus sometimes answered the questions and accusations thrown his way by the religious leaders of his day (e.g. Matthew 12:1-8) and sometimes refused to respond to their inquiries (e.g. Matthew 21:23-27). Proverbs states:
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.
"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." (Proverbs 26:4-5)
We must discern the reason for any questions according to the person who is doing the asking and answer within that context.

We should not cast our pearls of Godly wisdom before one who is a militant, ready to fight, unbeliever lest they turn on us and insult us or do us harm.

http://www.biblestudy.org/question/w...wine-mean.html

For Phil, I think this may have been a better time to remain silent.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
I can't stand the complete hypocritical stance on judging.

First off, everyone want's to be judged. They just want to only be judged as good. Think about it, when's the last time you heard someone famous say don't judge me. What people really mean to say is 'don't tell me I am wrong", what sodomites mean to say is, don't judge us as wrong, judge us as right, but that is still judging. In fact they are asking you to judge them.....as right. Our entire life is one constant judgment. If some creepy old man showed up acting weird and offered to babysit for you, I would hope you would judge him. Judging is what keeps people safe. If it weren't for judging, there would be no such things as celebrities. Hollywood is based on people who succeeded based on the judgment of millions of people. How can they begin to ask people not to judge.

Secondly, if you read matthew chapter 7 where it says the famous, don't judge lest ye be judged quote, well if you read it a little bit further, Jesus goes on to command us to judge. To be aware of false prophets, but to judge them by their fruits. How can you be aware of false prophets if you don't judge.

Thirdly, seriously, would you want to be judged by me, or do you want to be judged by God? If I tell you sinners go to hell, it's not so bad, but when you hear God tell you sinners go to hell, then it's too late for you. I am not the one who sets universal standards of morality, God is. When people try to say, Hey, I decided I am going to change the rules of morality, they are out of line. They don't get to decide what is good and evil.
Judging whether someone is safe to stay with your children is not even close to the same thing as trying to judge whether or not someone is going to Heaven.
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2014, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Paul did it, the Apostle John did it, the Old Testament prophets did it; but most importantly, Jesus said who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. Since Jesus is the example we follow as Christians, then there is nothing wrong with proclaiming the truth of what the Bible says on this subject.

It's not about homosexuals specifically not going to heaven, it's about unrepentant sinners who refuse to recognize their need for salvation. Those are the people who are going to hell and there is nothing wrong with telling them that.

As long as we keep our personal opinions out of it and stick with Scripture, then it's not judging or condemning those people, because they are already condemned and headed for judgment. We're just warning them of what's coming for them.
They condemned certain sins. Did Jesus actually condemn anyone while he was here? Or did he condemn certain sins?
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  #25  
Old 01-08-2014, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
I can't stand the complete hypocritical stance on judging.

First off, everyone want's to be judged. They just want to only be judged as good. Think about it, when's the last time you heard someone famous say don't judge me. What people really mean to say is 'don't tell me I am wrong", what sodomites mean to say is, don't judge us as wrong, judge us as right, but that is still judging. In fact they are asking you to judge them.....as right. Our entire life is one constant judgment. If some creepy old man showed up acting weird and offered to babysit for you, I would hope you would judge him. Judging is what keeps people safe. If it weren't for judging, there would be no such things as celebrities. Hollywood is based on people who succeeded based on the judgment of millions of people. How can they begin to ask people not to judge.

Secondly, if you read matthew chapter 7 where it says the famous, don't judge lest ye be judged quote, well if you read it a little bit further, Jesus goes on to command us to judge. To be aware of false prophets, but to judge them by their fruits. How can you be aware of false prophets if you don't judge.

Thirdly, seriously, would you want to be judged by me, or do you want to be judged by God? If I tell you sinners go to hell, it's not so bad, but when you hear God tell you sinners go to hell, then it's too late for you. I am not the one who sets universal standards of morality, God is. When people try to say, Hey, I decided I am going to change the rules of morality, they are out of line. They don't get to decide what is good and evil.
or as Phil would say, "Happy, happy, happy!"
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2014, 05:31 AM
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Does the bible not tell us not to judge others?
We are warned against hypocritical judging, yes. However, the Bible gives too much guidance on the proper discernment between good and evil to ever claim that judgment is unbiblical. What we should say is, "This what the Bible says…" That's simply proclaiming the truth and allowing GOD to do the judging.

If we stick to what the Bible says, without injecting our own opinions or agendas, then we are not judging anyone. GOD's Word is judging (and convicting) that person and they're likely not going to be happy about it. So the natural human response in this situation is to shoot the messenger, which is why Christians are so often blamed for what is actually the work of the Holy Spirit.

As far as saying that certain people can't be saved, it really just comes down to an attitude of repentance. A true follower of Christ will acknowledge that he/she is a sinner who is hopelessly corrupted and needs GOD to save them. However, someone who refuses to recognize their corruption and actually flaunts their sin as something good, then it is nearly impossible for that person to reach the true attitude of repentance necessary to be forgiven by GOD. That's not to say that they will never reach it, though.

Immorality creates a reprobate mind, which is a mind that no longer functions. Sexual sin destroys the mind and makes it nearly impossible for people to distinguish between good and evil. Only GOD can reverse the damage done to our minds by immorality, but we first need to recognize the immorality as wrong and stop fighting His attempts to heal us.

For example, let's say that you're a doctor and I'm one of your patients. I show up in your office one day with oozing sores all over my body that aren't healing and seem to be spreading everywhere and I'm leaking pus on everything I touch. While diagnosing me, you discover that I routinely bathe in raw sewage. You tell me that it's the constant exposure to human feces that is likely causing the infections and I respond with, "Don't judge me! You have no right to tell me what to do with my life!" Now, how stupid would someone have to be to respond to a doctor like that in that situation? Pretty stupid. Well, that's exactly how an immoral person is responding to GOD when they refuse to recognize their immoral actions as sin. Just as a doctor can't heal a rebellious patient who ignores all of that doctor's advice, GOD won't forgive a rebellious person who calls GOD a liar when it comes to His standards on sin.

If Phil had simply kept silent about the Biblical truth of homosexuality, to keep from offending people, then that would be exactly the same as denying that truth. We are commanded to proclaim the truth, even if it offends people or is unpopular. In fact, we are told that GOD's truth will always be unpopular and offensive in this fallen world. I've never understood this notion that Christians should never offend people, when Jesus was so offensive that He was put to death and His is the example we are supposed to follow.

I actually respect Phil Robertson a lot for how fearlessly he proclaims the Gospel and I often wish that I had his level of courage. Too often I find myself keeping quiet about the Gospel for fear of offending people or causing controversy. Does that make me a hypocrite? Of course it does; but we're all hypocrites on some level. However, as one preacher put it, if you allow a hypocrite to get between you and GOD, then the hypocrite is closer to GOD than you are.
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:54 AM
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Did Jesus actually condemn anyone while he was here?
In His first advent, no. In His second, upcoming advent, He absolutely will condemn people. Which is why Christ's Second Coming is also known as Armageddon.

You can't just pick and choose which aspects of GOD you like and ignore the stuff that makes you uncomfortable. You need to study the full picture of GOD painted by the entirety of the Bible. If you only choose to believe the few verses in the New Testament that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside and ignore the rest, then you are worshipping a false god and not the true GOD.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:28 PM
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I guess I need to clarify (for the smart asses -adamt lol) what I mean by judging in this conversation. I mean judging other people's sin. I am not talking about judging whether someone is safe to babysit. Nor am I talking about judging whether someone is a false prophet, etc. I am talking about judging other people's sin.

The bible tells us to judge the sin of our brothers in Christ. So if this is a fellow member of your church then, yes, you are supposed to judge them in sin. If you believe them to be sinning then you should go to them in private first. If that doesn't work then get your church involved. But I don't believe we are to be judging other religions. Paul tells us that if they believe differently from us we are to embrace them, not to debate who is right or wrong, but embrace them as a brother in Christ and agree to disagree.

I also don't believe that we are to be out here attempting to judge non-believers. And we are warned not to cast our pearls to swine. There is a reason for that. There are times when it is better to remain silent. Like when those men questioned Jesus He refused to answer. I believe he refused because He knew that they were asking to cause conflict/strife. The bible also warns us of offending others with the word of God.
(Maybe this is what bothers me about Phil's comments. Boy did it cause conflict/strife. lol)

Also, I don't believe that quoting the bible or stating your beliefs is judging someone else's sin.

Nate, your example of the man going to the doctor, well, he went to the doctor for his opinion/advice. So if someone comes to you for religious/faith-based advice then that is a different situation. You are being invited to teach/judge sin.

Last edited by Neezar; 01-08-2014 at 01:40 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2014, 02:04 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
I guess I need to clarify (for the smart asses -adamt lol) what I mean by judging in this conversation. I mean judging other people's sin. I am not talking about judging whether someone is safe to babysit. Nor am I talking about judging whether someone is a false prophet, etc. I am talking about judging other people's sin.

The bible tells us to judge the sin of our brothers in Christ. So if this is a fellow member of your church then, yes, you are supposed to judge them in sin. If you believe them to be sinning then you should go to them in private first. If that doesn't work then get your church involved. But I don't believe we are to be judging other religions. Paul tells us that if they believe differently from us we are to embrace them, not to debate who is right or wrong, but embrace them as a brother in Christ and agree to disagree.

I also don't believe that we are to be out here attempting to judge non-believers. And we are warned not to cast our pearls to swine. There is a reason for that. There are times when it is better to remain silent. Like when those men questioned Jesus He refused to answer. I believe he refused because He knew that they were asking to cause conflict/strife. The bible also warns us of offending others with the word of God.
(Maybe this is what bothers me about Phil's comments. Boy did it cause conflict/strife. lol)

Also, I don't believe that quoting the bible or stating your beliefs is judging someone else's sin.

Nate, your example of the man going to the doctor, well, he went to the doctor for his opinion/advice. So if someone comes to you for religious/faith-based advice then that is a different situation. You are being invited to teach/judge sin.
i didn't meant to be a smartass, denise, in fact i am guilty of not having read this whole thread, i do have to stick to my guns that judging is judging, it doesn't matter to what degree and we all need to judge

in fairness though phil didn't judge anyone, he only did what you seem to be okay with and that is judging sin. Actually merely quoting the bible, and it wasn't just homosexuality he said was a sin.

the problem only arose when the homosexuals hit the ceiling cause they don't want their sin to be called sin

some of this is semantics--- i don't generally disagree with you very much, i imagine we agree more than either of us realize, but the fact remains that phil didn't judge anyone, he merely informed people what the bible had judged as sin
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:05 PM
adamt adamt is offline
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In His first advent, no. In His second, upcoming advent, He absolutely will condemn people. Which is why Christ's Second Coming is also known as Armageddon.

You can't just pick and choose which aspects of GOD you like and ignore the stuff that makes you uncomfortable. You need to study the full picture of GOD painted by the entirety of the Bible. If you only choose to believe the few verses in the New Testament that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside and ignore the rest, then you are worshipping a false god and not the true GOD.
excellent
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