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Old 12-08-2013, 05:36 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
It's not the fact that he killed for his cause. It's the fact of who and how he killed. He promoted the idea of killing "every white person in South Africa". He killed other blacks who he felt sided with the white leaders. He killed people publically by putting a gas-filled tire around their neck and lighting it on fire.

I have no problem with someone fighting against a corrupt government. If he stuck to fighting and killing the enemy, I'd have no problem calling him a hero. However, he was a terrorist.
If that was the case...how do you explain what he did after release from prison.

Someone who seriously believes that does not run for democratic ellection in a minority backing...and win...AND work with White people for the following decade whilst in office.

I think its true to say that he probably issued orders to kill people before he went into Prison. I doubt, he, personally, killed anyone. People at the top never get dirt on their own hands.

Wholistically he must have done more good then ill...do you write him off completely because he was involved in Killings, or ordered killings, of specific ethnicities, against the rulling elite of his time...and say because he did that, you cant possibly think highly of him for Uniting a Nation.

Do you apply the same harsh logic to George Washington? Someone who probably did a very similar role? How do you think the British Government viewed him? I suspect they viewed him as a Terrorist, an inciter of violence against a legitmate authority, leader of an armed rebellion, a Traitor to the rulling elite...

The difference is that had the British Government caught him...like the South African Government caught Nelson Mandela...George Washington would not have sat Twenty Seven Years in Pruison....which is another reason I doubt just how personally involved Mandela was...I mean...if he was as bad as you make out...surely they would have killed him...its what you do with successful Terrorists...as in, those who have carried out successful attacks...especially back in the years just after the second world war!
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2013, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
When our Founding Fathers led the revolution against the British, they weren't attacking civilians in an effort to spread terror throughout the land. The British were the ones doing that. Which is why we were rebelling against them.
That depends on who you ask in 1776 doesnt it.

If you asked anyone from England, they would have told you quite clearly, that the Master can not rebel against the servant. England had legitamate rule, and with that, they can rule exactly as they see fit, after all, the very ground that those collonies were based on was soverign British Soil. It belonged to England. It was a posession of Imperialism.

...and the reason that you were trying to free yourself was not through arbitary attacks by British Authorities...after all...the British Authorities wouldnt have attacked THEIR OWN POPULAS...unless of course, the Collonies had decided that they were going to trade with a nation we were at war with.

I quite suspect that if the US Federal Government, found the State Government of Hawaii was doing arms deals with Bin Ladens associates...that they may well not treat the Hawaiian very kindly.

That was the situation of the British Government...their own Collonies, doing deals with their sworne enemies...and they crying, when the King decided that perhaps they should pay more taxes, and not have representation in Whitehall....is it any wonder the British treated you so bad...? WTH would they treat an insubordinate and treacherous group of individuals with anything but contempt???

But...like with Nelson Mandela...The Militia actually won...and thus they get to write their victory version of events. Mandela and Washington have a lot in common...which is why your level of hypocrasy is stunning.

Personally...I see they both did some naughty things...but they both did great good. I am not prepared to cast one into Hell and free the other...I am also not really going to cast them both into Hell, when they had their visions, they did what needed to be done to bring that vision to reality, and then they both left lasting legacies of peacful triumph.

There are VERY few people like Washington and Mandela in History. Both were prepared to risk it all for their vision. People are all talk these days.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:33 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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go look at the laws at the time of apartheid ... education laws ... blacks were only allowed to be taught certain subjects

"There is no place for [the Bantu] in the European community above the level of certain forms of labour ... What is the use of teaching the Bantu child mathematics when it cannot use it in practice?"

segregation laws ... and this was not that long ago ... not everyone can do what gandhi did ...

go read some of pw bothas quotes of the time of the mentality of the south african govt ...
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:40 PM
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I think the Funeral/Memorial things have started now havent they...some kind of wake for the public has been and gone, a certain length of lying in State, and then a small funeral at the weekend.

I know a few black south africans...and they dont seem to harbour any hate for the man, despite some of the American objections on this forum that Nelson was involved in killing blacks and whites.
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