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  #111  
Old 11-20-2013, 01:17 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I only saw what he said with Joe Rogan right after the fight...what was he saying later?

And comparing what's been said about GSP not finishing fights to Johny and this particular fight isn't really "apples to apples" in my humble opinion. I'm not sure why you're saying Johny "deserved" to lose the fight?

Just because some of us believe Johny won doesn't mean we're haters. Just because some don't root for GSP doesn't make them haters. Everybody likes who they like.



Did you see what Ariel Halwani said in the Post Fight Show about hearing GSP's trainer tell him during the break after round 3 going into 4, "You're down 2-1." That means GSP's team thought he'd already lost 2 rounds which had to be 1 & 2, right, because everyone agrees he won 3. We know Johny won round 4 so that would mean GSP's own team thought Johny won 1, 2 & 4.

Johny's team is telling him, "You've probably got two.", then GSP's team is telling him, "You're down 2-1"...sounds like both corners were on the same page and had Johny leading by 2 rounds going into the 4th.

Thanks for sharing that and confirming what I already knew...Johny was the winner!
to me that sounds like there is uncertainty ... like i said, round 1 was close, coulda gone either way ... i gave it to gsp ... what i say doesn't matter ... its what the judges say ... they say gsp won .. he still has the belt ... it wasn't a robbery like everyone is making it out to be
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  #112  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
to me that sounds like there is uncertainty ... like i said, round 1 was close, coulda gone either way ... i gave it to gsp ... what i say doesn't matter ... its what the judges say ... they say gsp won .. he still has the belt ... it wasn't a robbery like everyone is making it out to be
To be the champ you got to beat the champ. I thought he beat him good but when you do not finish the fight you risk bad judging.
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  #113  
Old 11-20-2013, 04:58 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
to me that sounds like there is uncertainty ... like i said, round 1 was close, coulda gone either way ... i gave it to gsp ... what i say doesn't matter ... its what the judges say ... they say gsp won .. he still has the belt ... it wasn't a robbery like everyone is making it out to be
"Probably" means "almost certainly" so... It would have been different if they had said, "It's too close to call, or it's a toss-up." And GSP's corner was unequivocal with, "You're down 2-1." These guys are relying on their corners to tell them the truth, to be honest about the situation, where they stand in the fight so far; both these corners appear to have done that.

So far every article I've come across regarding the fight has it 48-47 for Hendricks with him winning 1, 2 & 4. Not one article I've read so far has GSP winning. From what I'm reading, it appears the majority from the mma community awarded Round 1 to Hendricks. I think that's pretty telling. Plus, if that round was THAT close, it should have been called "even" and given a 10-10.

Chuck and others bring up "damage", how that's not a factor, but is that really true? This is a combat sport after all, opponents are trying to inflict injury. When a guy gets a cut that's bad enough for the fight to be stopped, that's from damage. When a guy gets KO'd or the ref stops it due to a TKO, that's from damage inflicted. So why shouldn't these judges be using damage as a criteria? Doesn't that go to "effective" striking? What are they basing effective striking on, just the number of strikes they see landing? What if they don't see every strike landed due to bad positioning or due to the ref blocking their view?

Another thing, why are there just 3 judges, maybe it would be better if there were 5 judges. What do you think? Also, judges who know what they're doing!
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  #114  
Old 11-20-2013, 05:27 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

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Unified Rules and Other MMA Regulations

Judging

A. All bouts will be evaluated and scored by 3 judges who shall evaluate the contest from different location around the ring/fighting area. The referee may not be one of the 3 judges.

B. The 10-Point Must System will be the standard system of scoring a bout. Under the 10-Point Must Scoring System, 10 points must be awarded to the winner of the round and 9 points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored (10-10).

C. Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the ring/fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.

D. Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in (c) above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.

E. Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal strikes landed by a contestant.

F. Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active threatening guard.

G. Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler's attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking, taking down an opponent to force a ground fight, creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.

H. Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike.

I. Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks.

J. The following objective scoring criteria shall be utilized by the judges when scoring a round:

i. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows clear dominance in a round;

ii. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;

iii. a round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

iv. a round is to be scored as a 10-7 round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

K. Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:

i. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:

a. Effective grappling is weighed first; and
b. Effective striking is then weighed

ii. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:

a. Effective striking is weighed first; and
b. Effective grappling is then weighed

iii. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

iv. If a round ends with a relatively even amount of standing and canvas fighting, striking and grappling are weighed equally.
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  #115  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:25 PM
BradW BradW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I only saw what he said with Joe Rogan right after the fight...what was he saying later?

And comparing what's been said about GSP not finishing fights to Johny and this particular fight isn't really "apples to apples" in my humble opinion. I'm not sure why you're saying Johny "deserved" to lose the fight?

Just because some of us believe Johny won doesn't mean we're haters. Just because some don't root for GSP doesn't make them haters. Everybody likes who they like.



Did you see what Ariel Halwani said in the Post Fight Show about hearing GSP's trainer tell him during the break after round 3 going into 4, "You're down 2-1." That means GSP's team thought he'd already lost 2 rounds which had to be 1 & 2, right, because everyone agrees he won 3. We know Johny won round 4 so that would mean GSP's own team thought Johny won 1, 2 & 4.

Johny's team is telling him, "You've probably got two.", then GSP's team is telling him, "You're down 2-1"...sounds like both corners were on the same page and had Johny leading by 2 rounds going into the 4th.

Thanks for sharing that and confirming what I already knew...Johny was the winner!
the fight was won by GSP as decided by the judges.
do I think it was the right decision ?...maybe...maybe not.

but here is the thing Bonnie...if Johny wanted to win the fight he should
have knocked GSP out instead of only using 70% of his power.
he said he tried not to knock out GSP just to see if he could make the distance in a 5 round championship fight.
if that's really true then he got what he deserved...maybe next time he will try a little harder.
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  #116  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:35 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
"Probably" means "almost certainly" so... It would have been different if they had said, "It's too close to call, or it's a toss-up." And GSP's corner was unequivocal with, "You're down 2-1." These guys are relying on their corners to tell them the truth, to be honest about the situation, where they stand in the fight so far; both these corners appear to have done that.

So far every article I've come across regarding the fight has it 48-47 for Hendricks with him winning 1, 2 & 4. Not one article I've read so far has GSP winning. From what I'm reading, it appears the majority from the mma community awarded Round 1 to Hendricks. I think that's pretty telling. Plus, if that round was THAT close, it should have been called "even" and given a 10-10.

Chuck and others bring up "damage", how that's not a factor, but is that really true? This is a combat sport after all, opponents are trying to inflict injury. When a guy gets a cut that's bad enough for the fight to be stopped, that's from damage. When a guy gets KO'd or the ref stops it due to a TKO, that's from damage inflicted. So why shouldn't these judges be using damage as a criteria? Doesn't that go to "effective" striking? What are they basing effective striking on, just the number of strikes they see landing? What if they don't see every strike landed due to bad positioning or due to the ref blocking their view?

Another thing, why are there just 3 judges, maybe it would be better if there were 5 judges. What do you think? Also, judges who know what they're doing!
i watched the conversation and to me it sounds like after the third round firas say en francais something like "you won that round, now its 2-1", i don't hear him saying you are down 2-1, ariel probably understands better french than me, so i am not certain, and he also might have more access to what was said, i am going on what i can hear

also, you posted the criteria for judging ..... when it says effective striking its talking about more strikes landed

and if we want to talk about damage, gsp will be cleared by the end of the year .... johnny could be out for 6 months for an injured knee .. that is why damage is not the best factor, if gsp hurt that knee with a kick, its not really visable until later ..
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  #117  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:54 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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so dana is now saying he is a couple of weeks from announcing the rematch .. around next memorial day weekend ... could that mean these guys as TUF coaches???? seeing as gsp needs to clear up some issues, probably not, but i am sure johnny would love the opportunity!
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  #118  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:56 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by BradW View Post
the fight was won by GSP as decided by the judges.
do I think it was the right decision ?...maybe...maybe not.

but here is the thing Bonnie...if Johny wanted to win the fight he should
have knocked GSP out instead of only using 70% of his power.
he said he tried not to knock out GSP just to see if he could make the distance in a 5 round championship fight.
if that's really true then he got what he deserved...maybe next time he will try a little harder.
Wow, I'm shaking my head at what you said Johny said. Even if you did that why would you be blabbing about it, especially given the outcome? And you guys think women talk too much!

I obviously don't agree with those two judges, but I don't hold what I consider their bad decision against GSP, it's not his fault. Both guys went out there and fought and gave us a fight...I think we can all agree on that.

And whatever is going on with GSP personally, I wish him the best. I look forward to the rematch.
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  #119  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:09 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
i watched the conversation and to me it sounds like after the third round firas say en francais something like "you won that round, now its 2-1", i don't hear him saying you are down 2-1, ariel probably understands better french than me, so i am not certain, and he also might have more access to what was said, i am going on what i can hear

also, you posted the criteria for judging ..... when it says effective striking its talking about more strikes landed

and if we want to talk about damage, gsp will be cleared by the end of the year .... johnny could be out for 6 months for an injured knee .. that is why damage is not the best factor, if gsp hurt that knee with a kick, its not really visable until later ..
Ariel said he does speak French so he understood what Firas said. I don't think Ariel would have mentioned it if he had not heard clearly what Firas had said, do you?

What?! I didn't know he'd hurt his knee. Somehow I don't think GSP will mind having to wait to fight Johny again. I think when people are talking about damage, they're referring to damage the judges can clearly see during the fight.

When they say, "significant" strikes, does that mean the same thing as effective strikes..."just strikes landed"?
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  #120  
Old 11-20-2013, 08:21 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
Ariel said he does speak French so he understood what Firas said. I don't think Ariel would have mentioned it if he had not heard clearly what Firas had said, do you?

What?! I didn't know he'd hurt his knee. Somehow I don't think GSP will mind having to wait to fight Johny again. I think when people are talking about damage, they're referring to damage the judges can clearly see during the fight.

When they say, "significant" strikes, does that mean the same thing as effective strikes..."just strikes landed"?
i would hope significant strikes would be effective strikes .. some strikes are more so thrown to keep distance and not thrown with full intention ... if you look at fightmetric, in round 1,3 and 5, gsp landed more significant strikes, but not more total strikes .. again, that is only one criteria, but technically you can say jh landed more strikes in round 1 and (3 or 5) ... but gsp landed more significant ..

in the end it was a close fight ... you think jh won, i think gsp won .. and most people who had johnny winning probably still do, but i think most have been able to change their minds and say its not as big as a robbery as they thought on fight night .. i look forward to the rematch!!! (as long as they don't have to do tuf)
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