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  #21  
Old 11-15-2013, 10:36 AM
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wavetar wavetar is offline
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Call me jaded, but I believe ALL fighters who require TRT later on in life to achieve a normal level of testosterone were juicing in one form or another (testosterone/steroids/HGH, etc) early on. Medical professionals will tell you that legitimate, natural cases of abnormally low T in men in their 30's & 40's are infinitesimally small.

As far as Vitor vs Dan in regards to how they look, it's all in how much you take, exactly what you take, and how you train...and genetics of course, which I think was RNC's point. Many pro athletes in other sports are juicing & don't look hulk-like.
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by wavetar View Post
Call me jaded, but I believe ALL fighters who require TRT later on in life to achieve a normal level of testosterone were juicing in one form or another (testosterone/steroids/HGH, etc) early on. Medical professionals will tell you that legitimate, natural cases of abnormally low T in men in their 30's & 40's are infinitesimally small.

As far as Vitor vs Dan in regards to how they look, it's all in how much you take, exactly what you take, and how you train...and genetics of course, which I think was RNC's point. Many pro athletes in other sports are juicing & don't look hulk-like.
Did you watch the Youtube video RNC posted of Vitor at 20. Do you think he was juicing back then? And of course, I agree, genetics plays a big part, every body is different, and then there is age, training, diet.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wavetar View Post
Call me jaded, but I believe ALL fighters who require TRT later on in life to achieve a normal level of testosterone were juicing in one form or another (testosterone/steroids/HGH, etc) early on. Medical professionals will tell you that legitimate, natural cases of abnormally low T in men in their 30's & 40's are infinitesimally small.

As far as Vitor vs Dan in regards to how they look, it's all in how much you take, exactly what you take, and how you train...and genetics of course, which I think was RNC's point. Many pro athletes in other sports are juicing & don't look hulk-like.
Well said.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:28 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Your reply to Ben from the "gif" thread:



Seems like you're contradicting yourself, which is the real Vitor, "naturally" jacked, or "juice" jacked? At 20, he really looked like the Hulk...look at that neck and those shoulders!
no doubt dude was a beast at 20 .... I don't know if he was juiced ... but I don't think its fair to say that all fighters who are on trt have been juicers in their life ... with age, test decreases, if they want to compete with guys in their 20's, they are going to have to go on trt ... I don't think its fair ... it sucks to say dan shouldn't be competing, but if he needs trt to stay competitive, he probably shouldn't be allowed to fight imo
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:31 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by wavetar View Post
Call me jaded, but I believe ALL fighters who require TRT later on in life to achieve a normal level of testosterone were juicing in one form or another (testosterone/steroids/HGH, etc) early on. Medical professionals will tell you that legitimate, natural cases of abnormally low T in men in their 30's & 40's are infinitesimally small.

As far as Vitor vs Dan in regards to how they look, it's all in how much you take, exactly what you take, and how you train...and genetics of course, which I think was RNC's point. Many pro athletes in other sports are juicing & don't look hulk-like.
I don't think these guys have low t ... they are just on the lower range of the acceptable scale I think ... but they don't tell us everything
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2013, 04:19 AM
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I don't think these guys have low t ... they are just on the lower range of the acceptable scale I think ... but they don't tell us everything
I think that they do to an extent. I read a few different things awhile back that there is a correlation to lower testosterone levels showing in wrestlers, and I think it pertained to the effects of many weight cuts. So look at those that are/were on it....Hendo, Chael, Couture...all long time wrestlers. Marquardt and Mir (BJJ/grappling).

Vitor was caught before, there should be no way he should be granted a TRT exemption. In my eyes, he used steroids to get an unfair advantage. Now he is able to use something to get on a level playing field because of what he did previously. Make him fight with lower levels, it is only fair.
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kevint13 View Post
I think that they do to an extent. I read a few different things awhile back that there is a correlation to lower testosterone levels showing in wrestlers, and I think it pertained to the effects of many weight cuts. So look at those that are/were on it....Hendo, Chael, Couture...all long time wrestlers. Marquardt and Mir (BJJ/grappling).
That is probably a valid point that I hadn't considered. A lifetime of weight cuts has a negative effect on many aspects of your health, no doubt.

As to RNC's point about using TRT to get to the levels they had in their 20's...that's not the case. There's a reason it's called a therapeutic use exemption. They are given this exemption, because their levels are abnormally low to non-existent, not simply at the level appropriate to their age. If that were the case, everyone beyond 30 could get a TUE.

It's also BS how they are allowed as high as 6 times the level of a normal person when tested. And that's at fight time...it could have been much higher during training, since they typically aren't tested throughout, giving a serious unfair advantage over clean fighters.

Do I think Vitor juiced at 20? I didn't need to watch the clip, I've seen all the early UFC's Yes, I do believe he did, IMHO.
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