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Old 08-14-2013, 09:10 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Default Egypts pot has boiled over!

It was kind of inevitable...

The Army has clashed violently with The Muslim Brotherhood

Just to let you know how badly things have become...one of the camera men for SKY TV has been shot and killed whilst attempting to cover the story!

More than 140 people have been confirmed killed after Egyptian security forces opened fire as they tried to clear two protest camps loyal to deposed president Mohamed Morsi in Cairo.

A month-long state of emergency has been declared as violence spread from the capital to other parts of the country including the Mediterranean city of Alexandria. The move has been opposed by the US.

A curfew from 7pm to 6am has been declared in Cairo, according to reports, as well as ten other provinces including Alexandria and Suez.

The health ministry put the number of dead in Cairo at 149, with hundreds more injured. But the Muslim Brotherhood claimed hundreds had been killed.

The interior ministry, meanwhile, said 43 police officers had been killed in the clashes.
He added that the police would not allow any more sit-ins across the country.

US Secretary of State John Kerry called the events "deplorable".

"Violence will not create a roadmap for Egypt’s future. Violence only impedes the transition."

He added that the promise of the 2011 revolution has not yet been fully realised.

Egypt's vice president, Mohamed ElBaradei, has announced his resignation. Hazem Al Beblawi, the Prime Minister, said he remained committed to the democratic process under a civilian state.
Meanwhile two Brotherhood politicians have reportedly been arrested.

Sky's Middle East Correspondent Sam Kiley, reporting earlier from inside the Rabaa al Adawiya camp in the capital, said it was "under very heavy gunfire" and was a "massive military assault on largely unarmed civilians in very large numbers".

He said government forces were using machine guns, snipers, AK-47 and M16 rifles and were firing into the crowd.

Kiley added: "There are machine gun rounds, and snipers on the roof, that are preventing people from getting any closer to the field hospital (in the camp).

"I haven't seen any evidence yet of any weapons on the side of the pro-Morsi camp. The camp is very full of women and children."
He said it was a scene of "extreme chaos and bloodshed" and "many hundreds of troops and interior ministry police and special forces are involved".

"The dead and dying are on the steps of an improvised field hospital. The scenes here are absolutely graphic.

"I have covered many wars and this is as severe a battlefield as I have witnessed, with the exception of scenes in Rwanda. There are dozens and dozens of people who have been shot in the head, neck and upper body."

Among those reported killed in the camp was Asmaa al Beltagui the 17-year-old daughter of senior Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohamed al Beltagui.

Meanwhile, Egyptian authorities have released video footage taken from a helicopter which it said showed gunmen in the camp firing at security forces.
The unrest spread beyond the capital, as pro-Morsi supporters clashed with police in the Nile Delta cities of Minya and Assiut, as police stations, government buildings and churches were attacked or set ablaze.

In Alexandria, tear gas canisters rained down on a pro-Morsi march in the Sharq neighbourhood, amid repeated bursts of automatic gunfire.

Residents, armed with clubs, came out of their homes and shops to help the police, detaining Morsi supporters and handing them over to officers at the Sharq police station.

Morsi supporters, carrying Egyptian flags and pictures of the deposed leader, then clashed with his opponents on a road carpeted with rocks.

Earlier, riot officers in Cairo backed by armoured vehicles and bulldozers also fired tear gas in the camps at the demonstrators who are demanding Mr Morsi be reinstated as the country's leader.
The interior ministry, which is in charge of police, warned its security forces would deal firmly with protesters acting "irresponsibly" and said it would guarantee safe passage to those who want to leave the two sites.

The larger is the Rabaa al Adawiya camp described as a 'mini town' in Nasr City, while the other is in Al Nahda Square outside the main campus of Cairo University in Giza.

The interior ministry later said security forces had "total control" over the smaller camp and police have managed to remove most of the tents in the square.

The Muslim Brotherhood that backs ousted Islamist president Mr Morsi claimed over 250 people had been killed and 5,000 hurt in the crackdown, which is almost certain to deepen political turmoil in Egypt.

It urged Egyptians to take to the streets in their thousands to denounce the "massacre".
"This is not an attempt to disperse, but a bloody attempt to crush all voices of opposition to the military coup," Brotherhood spokesman Gehad al Haddad said on Twitter.

The Rabaa al Adawiya protest camp, where several Brotherhood leaders are staying, "is calling on Egyptians to take to the streets to stop the massacre," Haddad said.

At least three members of the security forces were confirmed to have died in the crackdown, while the health ministry said nine protesters were killed and over 80 were injured.

The raids came after international efforts failed to mediate an end to a six-week political standoff between Morsi's supporters and the army-backed government which took power after he was ousted on July 3.

Regional television networks showed images of collapsed tents and burning tyres at both sites, as well as protesters being arrested and led away by troops.

A television feed by a pro-Morsi TV station showed thousands of protesters gathered at the centre of the Nasr City site, with many covering their faces to fend off the tear gas.

It said most of the protesters at the other camp fled to the nearby Orman botanical gardens and inside the sprawling university campus.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said he was "deeply concerned at the escalating violence in Egypt, and regret the loss of life on all sides".

He added: "I condemn the use of force in clearing protests and call on the security forces to act with restraint."

Qatar, Turkey and Iran were among the other countries criticising the deadly crackdown.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:09 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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The way you hear Kerry and Obama speak, you'd think the Muslim Brotherhood are a reasonable group that can be negotiated and reasoned with. They are burning churches and killing Coptic Christians; today they are having a "day of rage". First they attend their morning prayer, then they go out in the streets for their day of rage. Of course the military isn't looking any better having killed hundreds of them in the last few days. I think this situation was headed towards a violent showdown no matter what, but the military decided to escalate things sooner.

And there sits Israel.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:24 PM
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County Mike County Mike is offline
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Egypt has pot?

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Old 08-17-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
The way you hear Kerry and Obama speak, you'd think the Muslim Brotherhood are a reasonable group that can be negotiated and reasoned with. They are burning churches and killing Coptic Christians; today they are having a "day of rage". First they attend their morning prayer, then they go out in the streets for their day of rage. Of course the military isn't looking any better having killed hundreds of them in the last few days. I think this situation was headed towards a violent showdown no matter what, but the military decided to escalate things sooner.

And there sits Israel.
The Problem for Barack Obama is that The Muslim Brotherhood were DEMOCRATICALLY ELLECTED.

It doesnt actually matter if they are reasonable or not...they were democratically ellected. If Obama sides with the Egyptian Military, he is effectively Condoning the use of A MILITARY COUP AGAINST DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES

IMHO both sides are as bad as each other, BUT the Islamists were democratically ellected, whereas the Military were not.

I have ALWAYS said that the problem with Egypt and the mistakes of the Western World in dealing with Egypt lay right back in the heat of the Arab Spring...ONLY someone like Barack Obama could be confused by what has happened as a result of refusing to help Hosni Mubarack.

Now Egypt will decend into Civil War. I concure with Bonnie...this was pretty much inevitable

The Arab Spring actually represents the first contageous set of concurent revolutions since the First World Revolutionary Era...which George Washington triggered....The Impact of the American Revolution is generally not realized...but if you watch the nations that were involved with the U.S War of Independance, the first thing they did when they got home, was begin the same practice of Civil unrest. As soon as The French had finished securing the future of the United States, they turned on their own Monarch...so fell a huge wave of Monarchic Houses across Europe. The First world completely rejected the ideal of Supreme Rule...Now you are seeing a similar thing with the Arab World. This Instability is going nowhere. It may take decades to sort out...ONLY because England had already gone through a Civil War Era prior to the US bid for Freedom, was it partially saved from a similar fate as vast swaiths of Europe....and in terms of that period...I would say it was at the least 150 years long.
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Old 08-17-2013, 02:14 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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BTW...its been disclosed that the Camera man who was killed, wasnt killed by random fire into the crowd...he was actually a victim of a sniper attack. That means he was deliberately singled out...they think because he was trying to film something the Government didnt want the rest of the world to see.

How sad it is, that the chances are high, in terms of aggression and the kill count...the Muslim Brotherhood are probably correct in terms of their estimations...its begining to look like ALOT MORE then just 100 people were killed...and thats what we think the Government were trying to hide.

Deceit is deceit no matter who says it.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
The Problem for Barack Obama is that The Muslim Brotherhood were DEMOCRATICALLY ELLECTED.

It doesnt actually matter if they are reasonable or not...they were democratically ellected. If Obama sides with the Egyptian Military, he is effectively Condoning the use of A MILITARY COUP AGAINST DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES

IMHO both sides are as bad as each other, BUT the Islamists were democratically ellected, whereas the Military were not.

I have ALWAYS said that the problem with Egypt and the mistakes of the Western World in dealing with Egypt lay right back in the heat of the Arab Spring...ONLY someone like Barack Obama could be confused by what has happened as a result of refusing to help Hosni Mubarack.

Now Egypt will decend into Civil War. I concure with Bonnie...this was pretty much inevitable

The Arab Spring actually represents the first contageous set of concurent revolutions since the First World Revolutionary Era...which George Washington triggered....The Impact of the American Revolution is generally not realized...but if you watch the nations that were involved with the U.S War of Independance, the first thing they did when they got home, was begin the same practice of Civil unrest. As soon as The French had finished securing the future of the United States, they turned on their own Monarch...so fell a huge wave of Monarchic Houses across Europe. The First world completely rejected the ideal of Supreme Rule...Now you are seeing a similar thing with the Arab World. This Instability is going nowhere. It may take decades to sort out...ONLY because England had already gone through a Civil War Era prior to the US bid for Freedom, was it partially saved from a similar fate as vast swaiths of Europe....and in terms of that period...I would say it was at the least 150 years long.
The problem Barack Obama has is that he has no credibility, he's shown the world he's all talk, no action. After he left Americans to die in Benghazi and he let all our embassies be burned all across Africa and Asia with no consequences and no one being made to pay, they knew for sure then, they have nothing to fear from him. Also, I don't think he has any leverage to use to try to affect the situation. If we cut off aid to Egypt, it could impact Israel.

From what they are reporting today, people were cheering the military as they forced their way into a mosque where MB had barricaded themselves after they attempted to storm the police station yesterday that's located right next door to the mosque.

Btw, wasn't it the military that finally told Mubarak he had to go? Who has the real power in Egypt, the President or the military?
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Last edited by Bonnie; 08-18-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
The problem Barack Obama has is that he has no credibility, he's shown the world he's all talk, no action. After he left Americans to die in Benghazi and he let all our embassies be burned all across Africa and Asia with no consequences and no one being made to pay, they knew for sure then, they have nothing to fear from him. Also, I don't think he has any leverage to use to try to affect the situation. If we cut off aid to Egypt, it could impact Israel.

From what they are reporting today, people were cheering the military as they forced their way into a mosque where MB had barricaded themselves after they attempted to storm the police station yesterday that's located right next door to the mosque.

Btw, wasn't it the military that finally told Mubarak he had to go? Who has the real power in Egypt, the President or the military?
The Military.

The Military I think but Hosni in place...they removed him...they sorted out the democratic vote, they put the brotherhood in its place, they removed them, they put someone else in.

Its the Military that run Egypt...but over time, a President can sway the Military as Hosni did as Generals come and go...
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