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  #31  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by flo View Post
Like Charlie Crist, eh Chuck? Even though it's off-topic, I'd like to know your thoughts about Marco Rubio now that he's part of the "Gang of 8" with this immigration bill.

Anyway, here is a very short but interesting article from a FL atty. about the trial.

The Embarrassment of the George Zimmerman Verdict
Spot on article! Thanks for sharing that with us, Cathy.
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:53 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Regardless of what he knew, he never broke a law. If Trayvon just went home instead of attacking him, nothing would have happened. The only law breaker in this scenario was Trayvon. End of story.
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....this was NOT ABOUT RACE.
The truth and the truth.
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:57 PM
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twinsmama twinsmama is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
yes .. i honestly didn't know the republicans in fla made this case happen .. i thought it was pressure from everywhere ... but i don't get how you are equating the republicans with the defense ..

as for the other case, it is very similar imo ... raul rodriguez called the police for a disturbance and wanted the police to break up the party ... he brought a gun and when he felt threatened he brandished hit, stood his ground and the others backed off ... one of the others did something to him, grabbed him or whatever (its on tape) and he shot him .. the others rushed in and got shot as well ... he was standing his ground in his opinion, and he is in jail for 40 years
not sure if that happened in florida or not but i will assume that happened in florida....his problem.....don't pull a gun to intimidate someone, pull it to kill them because you are scared for your life.
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:40 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
yes .. i honestly didn't know the republicans in fla made this case happen .. i thought it was pressure from everywhere ... but i don't get how you are equating the republicans with the defense ..

as for the other case, it is very similar imo ... raul rodriguez called the police for a disturbance and wanted the police to break up the party ... he brought a gun and when he felt threatened he brandished hit, stood his ground and the others backed off ... one of the others did something to him, grabbed him or whatever (its on tape) and he shot him .. the others rushed in and got shot as well ... he was standing his ground in his opinion, and he is in jail for 40 years
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Rodriguez's defense was similar to that used by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who is citing Florida's stand-your-ground law in his defense in the fatal February shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. Rodriguez's case, however, was decided under a different kind of self-defense doctrine.

Texas' version of a stand-your-ground law is known as the Castle Doctrine. It was revised in 2007 to expand the right to use deadly force. The new version allows people to defend themselves in their homes, workplaces or vehicles. The law also says that a person using force cannot provoke the attacker or be involved in criminal activity at the time[/B].
RNC, these two cases are not the same. If you watch the video that Rodriguez made, to make sure he had "proof" that he was in the right to stand his ground, it is clear he was provoking the situation which the law in Texas states you cannot do. He keeps telling the 911 operator, "I'm going to have to defend myself, I'm going to have to defend myself..." He even brings up he's standing his ground. All conveniently video-taped by him while he's talking on the phone with the 911 operator so that he has that conversation as recorded proof also. He obviously thought out using the stand your ground defense before he ever went over there which is only cemented by his videotape of the whole thing. He thought he would be exonerated by his video but it only proved his intent and guilt.

I think if we had video of the incident between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin we would see things play out as George Zimmerman said they happened. Also, it said in the article you linked (I posted/bolded above) that Zimmerman was using the stand your ground law in his defense, from what I understand, that is not correct, his defense lawyer Mr. O'Mara said they did not rely on that provision in the courtroom because Mr. Zimmerman had no option to retreat. However, I did read where it was included in the jury instructions; it's kind of confusing! lol From what I understand if Zimmerman had claimed stand your ground, he would not now be able to be sued civilly by Trayvon's family, but since he didn't, if they so choose they can sue him for wrongful death.

Rodriguez had the opportunity to avoid continuing/escalating the confrontation by walking away/retreating before using force. His neighbor told him to leave, but he refused. I believe Trayvon Martin decided he was going to confront George Zimmerman, and then he hit him in the nose to quickly gain advantage, and when Zimmerman went down, he got on top of him. Zimmerman couldn't retreat.
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
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Originally Posted by twinsmama View Post
not sure if that happened in florida or not but i will assume that happened in florida....his problem.....don't pull a gun to intimidate someone, pull it to kill them because you are scared for your life.
It was in Texas.
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  #36  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:28 PM
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Attorney General Eric Holder made stand your ground the topic in his speech yesterday at a NAACP convention and Stevie Wonder announced he would boycott Florida and other states that have stand your ground laws.

Here's an interesting article about who has benefited most in Florida using "stand your ground":

Quote:
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/bl...rtionate-rate/

Blacks benefit from Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law at disproportionate rate

10:02 PM 07/16/2013 - Patrick Howley, Investigative Reporter

African Americans benefit from Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state’s population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing “Stand Your Ground” would help African Americans.

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state’s total “Stand Your Ground” claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Nonetheless, prominent African Americans including Holder and “Ebony and Ivory” singer Stevie Wonder, who has vowed not to perform in the Sunshine State until the law is revoked, have made “Stand Your Ground” a central part of the Trayvon Martin controversy.

Holder, who was pressured by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and other progressive groups to open a civil rights case against acquitted neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in the 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Martin, criticized Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law in a speech Tuesday before the NAACP.

The law was not invoked by Zimmerman’s defense team but was included in instructions to the jury.

“We must confront the underlying attitudes, the mistaken beliefs and the unfortunate stereotypes that serve too often as the basis for police action and private judgments. Separate and apart from the case that has drawn the nation’s attention, it’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhood,” Holder said to applause in his speech before the NAACP Tuesday.

“These laws try to fix something that was never broken. There has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if — and the ‘if’ is important — if no safe retreat is available. But we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common-sense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat, outside their home, if they can do so safely. By allowing and perhaps encouraging violent situations to escalate in public, such laws undermine public safety,” Holder said.

“The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent. It is our collective obligation; we must stand OUR ground to ensure — (cheers, applause, music) — we must stand our ground to ensure that our laws reduce violence, and take a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they prevent,” Holder said.

But approximately one third of Florida “Stand Your Ground” claims in fatal cases have been made by black defendants, and they have used the defense successfully 55 percent of the time, at the same rate as the population at large and at a higher rate than white defendants, according to a Daily Caller analysis of a database maintained by the Tampa Bay Times. Additionally, the majority of victims in Florida “Stand Your Ground” cases have been white.

African Americans used “Stand Your Ground” defenses at nearly twice the rate of their presence in the Florida population, which was listed at 16.6 percent in 2012

One hundred thirty three people in the state of Florida have used a “Stand Your Ground” defense. Of these claims, 73 were considered “justified” (55 percent), while 39 resulted in criminal convictions and 21 cases are still pending.

Forty four African Americans in the state of Florida have claimed a “Stand Your Ground” defense. Of these claims, 24 were considered “justified” (55 percent), while 11 resulted in convictions and nine cases are still pending.

Of the 76 white people who have used the defense, 40 were considered “justified” (less than 53 percent), while 25 were convicted and 11 cases are still pending.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/bl...#ixzz2ZLObMkLG
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:42 PM
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Thank you, Bonnie.
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  #38  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:46 PM
Chuck Chuck is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
Attorney General Eric Holder made stand your ground the topic in his speech yesterday at a NAACP convention and Stevie Wonder announced he would boycott Florida and other states that have stand your ground laws.

Here's an interesting article about who has benefited most in Florida using "stand your ground":
Interesting but absolutely useless in this discussion.

You realize that things like facts and the truth have no place in a race based discussion whipped into a frenzy by a greedy irresponsible media right???
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  #39  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:09 PM
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If someone was following me through a neighborhood at night, I would turn around and try to whip the shyte out of them, too.

Zimmerman should have taken his ass whoopin' like a man and left the gun out of it.

After voicing his displeasure with these guys(criminals/burglars" in his mind) always getting away, Zimmerman got out of his car with a GUN and followed someone he admits to thinking is a criminal. Geez. You can't get any more intent than that.

Prosecution did a shoddy job, imo.

ps how can you chase someone and be "standing your ground"? lol
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  #40  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:16 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
If someone was following me through a neighborhood at night, I would turn around and try to whip the shyte out of them, too.

Zimmerman should have taken his ass whoopin' like a man and left the gun out of it.

After voicing his displeasure with these guys(criminals/burglars" in his mind) always getting away, Zimmerman got out of his car with a GUN and followed someone he admits to thinking is a criminal. Geez. You can't get any more intent than that.

Prosecution did a shoddy job, imo.

ps how can you chase someone and be "standing your ground"? lol
Thank you!!!

its easy to stand your ground when you are a wanna be tough guy and know you are packing heat!
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