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  #11  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:43 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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First off, the "50%" is not an accurate statistic. It includes 2nd, 3rd marriages from individuals, so in that it throws the numbers off. Some say the actual numbers are 25-30%.

Secondly, your argument is illogical. One thing has NOTHING to do with the other. Gay marriage is not marriage at all and therefore calling it such, and legalizing it and forcing it through is threatening.

Read your Bible man. You need to have ears to hear. The world is nuts, and heading straight to hell and these kinds of abomonations are nothing but indications of that.
well, you may be right ... i don't know what the real rate of divorce is, 50% is the number that is thrown around .. who knows if you can even find real stats on this ... listen, when you can go to vegas and get married by a guy dressed as elvis, or have a drive thru wedding, how can people say that two guys or two girls marrying each other goes against the values of marriage ... or also the fact that heterosexuals are getting around the system for tax reasons and getting married to save some dough .. i am not saying that two wrongs make a right, but i think allowing gay marriage isn't going to tarnish the institution for those religious people who have been married for years ..
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:33 AM
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well, you may be right ... i don't know what the real rate of divorce is, 50% is the number that is thrown around .. who knows if you can even find real stats on this ... listen, when you can go to vegas and get married by a guy dressed as elvis, or have a drive thru wedding, how can people say that two guys or two girls marrying each other goes against the values of marriage ... or also the fact that heterosexuals are getting around the system for tax reasons and getting married to save some dough .. i am not saying that two wrongs make a right, but i think allowing gay marriage isn't going to tarnish the institution for those religious people who have been married for years ..
Divorce tarnishes marriage too. True.

This is why brother you need to have Ears to Hear. It doesn't matter what man's law makes "right". It ONLY matters that God's Law IS right. If you keep judging all of this through a humanistic, excuse-laden lens you will always excuse everything. There ARE absolutes. God's ways are always absolute.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:34 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Divorce tarnishes marriage too. True.

This is why brother you need to have Ears to Hear. It doesn't matter what man's law makes "right". It ONLY matters that God's Law IS right. If you keep judging all of this through a humanistic, excuse-laden lens you will always excuse everything. There ARE absolutes. God's ways are always absolute.
Viz, i like you man .... you definitely have a way of wording things ... great post ... but man, not everyone believes in the bible ... not everyone believes in God or religion .. how can you base the laws of a land with such a wide variety of belief systems on one Holy Book? how can you say gay marriages aren't allowed because God didn't intend for it without alienating a bunch of people .. i know God isn't worried about alienating non-believers .. but still ..
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
Viz, i like you man .... you definitely have a way of wording things ... great post ... but man, not everyone believes in the bible ... not everyone believes in God or religion .. how can you base the laws of a land with such a wide variety of belief systems on one Holy Book?
You may not able to, but what society cannot or WILL not do is irrelevant. God doesn't judge YOU by what society says, He judges you by your heart. And if you are not living your life according to His Law then you are subject to His penalty.

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how can you say gay marriages aren't allowed because God didn't intend for it without alienating a bunch of people .. i know God isn't worried about alienating non-believers .. but still ..
Everyone is given the choice TO believe. Working backwards from that fact we know that no one is or was initially alienated by God. They took that walk away. They were not pushed away. The Bible should be your source book for the answers. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality in general revealed to be anything less than a pure sin.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:58 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by Vizion View Post
You may not able to, but what society cannot or WILL not do is irrelevant. God doesn't judge YOU by what society says, He judges you by your heart. And if you are not living your life according to His Law then you are subject to His penalty.

Everyone is given the choice TO believe. Working backwards from that fact we know that no one is or was initially alienated by God. They took that walk away. They were not pushed away. The Bible should be your source book for the answers. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality in general revealed to be anything less than a pure sin.
again, another brilliant post man .. thanks for the insight!
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:56 PM
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That's awesome! Whoever thought it would be France who led the return to common sense?
Everything else that they have led, has been doomed doesnt bode well
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Vizion View Post
You may not able to, but what society cannot or WILL not do is irrelevant. God doesn't judge YOU by what society says, He judges you by your heart. And if you are not living your life according to His Law then you are subject to His penalty.

Everyone is given the choice TO believe. Working backwards from that fact we know that no one is or was initially alienated by God. They took that walk away. They were not pushed away. The Bible should be your source book for the answers. Nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality in general revealed to be anything less than a pure sin.
So is telling lies...so perhaps you should organise a "no telling lies" protest.

There is one little factoid you forgot to mention. In the Bible it makes very clear that sin is not weighted. No sin is greater then any other in the eyes of GOD (apart from the unforgiveable sin)

For GOD you are either perfect, or you are not. As we are not, we need Christ to save us. You talk about not using societal values to judge...well be careful...because I see this topic come up time and time and time again, with all the Christians duly spouting their criticisms and rebukes...

..But according to GOD, a lifestyle full of lies...which YOU and ANYONE READING THIS, has chosen, is just as condemned, and just as bad...yet...I dont see a lot of threads about that.

Its easy to attack a minority sin that you may never indulge in....but try to level the barrel at other, more widespread sins, particularly those which are the thorne in your own side...because never are people made to feel so bad about themselves for lies, or theaft, or adultory...as they are for homosexuality.

You remember that
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:52 PM
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So is telling lies...so perhaps you should organise a "no telling lies" protest.

There is one little factoid you forgot to mention. In the Bible it makes very clear that sin is not weighted. No sin is greater then any other in the eyes of GOD (apart from the unforgiveable sin)

For GOD you are either perfect, or you are not. As we are not, we need Christ to save us. You talk about not using societal values to judge...well be careful...because I see this topic come up time and time and time again, with all the Christians duly spouting their criticisms and rebukes...

..But according to GOD, a lifestyle full of lies...which YOU and ANYONE READING THIS, has chosen, is just as condemned, and just as bad...yet...I dont see a lot of threads about that.

Its easy to attack a minority sin that you may never indulge in....but try to level the barrel at other, more widespread sins, particularly those which are the thorne in your own side...because never are people made to feel so bad about themselves for lies, or theaft, or adultory...as they are for homosexuality.

You remember that
I agree with that. No sin is necessarily more grievous than another, but some sins drive movements that spread that sin and normalize that sin and call the evil of that sin good. Some sins just plain threaten society as a whole.
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  #19  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:22 PM
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I agree with that. No sin is necessarily more grievous than another, but some sins drive movements that spread that sin and normalize that sin and call the evil of that sin good. Some sins just plain threaten society as a whole.
No Christian Homosexuals I know, and trust me, I know some, even the ones that are practising, wouldnt say its "Good" They might say its required to gain the same legal rights, they might say that its good as a confession of love and intent to have a long term relationship, they may even feel that they are entitled to something if they feel that they have no chance of ever getting heterosexual....that it may not be perfect...but it is the best that they can hope for. They might also say its a good way for society to hold them accountable for life long promises to each other.

I have heard some say that its only fair...personally, I think that is because they are sad that they can never have a "big day" like all the hetrosexuals can, and that psychologically, a civil partnership makes them feel inferior.

But then I have never really been involved in millitancy...some homosexuals dont want to get married...they just want to make the Churches embarrised by getting the Government to force them to do things they wouldnt want to...and a lot of that hatred is the fault of the Christians in those churches, who rather then trying to help heal...have condemned, criticized, and made those inflicted with same sex attraction feel really sad, and hurt, and then bitter. If Christ was here today, he would be seen hanging out with Homosexuals, who he would have healed, and freed them from the worldly needs...like he did with prostitutes when he was last incarnate on earth.

There is one thing that you forget about this particular sin. It doesnt matter if the State legalize Homosexual Marriage or not...it doesnt matter if they force a GOD fearing priest to conduct the ceremony...for one VERY simple reason.

Neither the Church, Nor The State have the power to legitamize ANY Sacrement whatsoever. Mysterium Lunae...The Church does NOTHING more to GOD, then the Moon does to The Sun. The reason you see the Moon at night is because the Moon reflects the light of the Sun...the Moon has NO control over that...so it is with the Church...They can reflect the Glory of GOD...but they cannot create the Glory of GOD where His Light refuses to sign.

Without GOD, your "marriage" is just a ceremony. Its funny, how every good Christian hates the idea of homosexual marriage...but tell me...what are your thoughts on Athiests marrying in a Church? what of pagens? what of every other evil under the sun, that ALREADY marrys in churches?

There is nothing societal acceptance can do to threaten GOD. There is no point of Majority aggreement, at which GOD will change his mind on an issue of morality. You can not force a blessing from GOD, you can not "Create" a Union or a Sacrement...you can not Steal it from the Church by State Order, or by peer pressure.

Homosexual Marriage will never be legitamized by GOD in the same way that a Christian Hetrosexual Marriage is consecrated. No Ceremony will do. Its simply a placebo...the homosexuals who marrys in the church feels "accepted"

Well...he can "Feel" it all he wants...it doesnt mean GOD has fused the spirits of the two partners together.

Personally, I think its up to the individual to choose what they want to do. I havent decided if I believe you are "born" gay...but I do think that if you suffer from it, then the feelings are NOT a choice. However, practising is ALWAYS a Choice...you cant accidently have sex...and feeling like you want to, doesnt mean you must. I DO think the State should allow a way for homosexuals who wish to be next of kin, to settle the matter in a legal fashion. As GOD respects a persons freewill...so the State should also.

If the State can find a way of making homosexual marriage legal, in a way that doesnt force an unwilling church to participate, then I dont care if they make it legal or not...because it doesnt change the Truth.

I DO have a problem with the State FORCING a Church to do something against its will...and that is my primary concern here.

I would almost certainly never go for either. Because I dont need the Church or State to authorize any personal vows I might make to someone else, for a start. Secondly, I respect the fact that if I made that choice, it would be against what GOD wanted, and whilst I would be no less abiding to my promise as if it were sanctified...I would recognise that it could never be legitamately sanctified or consecrated...I would not want to tarnish any institution with being involved in such an abomination. We would know what we were doing, but it would be our sin alone...and only conducted, if to NOT follow through would lead to sin with worse repuccusions.

When all is Evil, sometimes you have to choose to live with the lesser of the two evils. We all live sinful lifestyles, and we all knowingly reproduce the same sins time and again. There is no point in not being honnest with the Almighty, because he is not fooled by your reasoning, that somehow, its perfectly alright to lead a secret sinful life of the mind, perhaps, but not to live a sinful life in the light...as if he would care less about your secrets, because they are hidden from the world. No, if ever I was to practise, if ever I was to get into a long term relationship...I know it could never be legitamized.

The really bizzare thing ive found with myself, is that, with those who I actually feel closest to, those other men that I truely love...the closer I get, the less likely, I want to have a sexual encounter with them...because I wouldnt want to tarnish them. I would not want to spoil them if that makes sence, I wouldnt want a sordid little secret kept between us Thats something I dont think I could ever get over...I'm pretty sure, the more I loved them, the less chance there would be of anything but celebacy

I would honnestly say that there are only two men in the entire world who I love...and even if they were both to come up to me and offer themselves...I just couldnt. I couldnt do that to them, and one of the two IS gay...although I didnt know for years and years and years

Accidents are one thing...pre-planned long term with people you truely love, are something else...I personally think that a psychological and spiritual connection with someone is more pleasurable and far better then any physiological thing....and whats fantastic, is that close friends give that to each other anyway dont they
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:02 PM
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I think gay marriage is the least of our worries right now.
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