Go Back   Matt-Hughes.com Official Forums > General Discussions > Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:55 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,566
Default NSA Leaks

what are everyone's thoughts on this??? is the guy a hero or traitor?

http://us.cnn.com/2013/06/10/politic...html?hpt=hp_t1

Hong Kong (CNN) -- Edward Snowden, the man behind one of the biggest leaks in the history of U.S. intelligence, is a former technical assistant for the CIA who is now holed up in a Hong Kong hotel, in danger of running out of money and hoping to find asylum somewhere in the world.

U.S. Rep. Peter King, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee's Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence, called Snowden "a defector" who should be turned over to the United States with an eye toward harsh prosecution.

"This person is dangerous to the country," King told CNN's "Starting Point" on Monday.

Snowden, 29, identified himself this weekend in American and British newspapers as the person who exposed details of a top-secret American program that collects vast streams of phone and Internet data.

The revelations have set off a furious debate in the United States about whether the surveillance program is a disturbing form of government overreach or an important tool for intelligence agencies trying to prevent attacks against the nation.
They have also dealt a fresh blow to the Obama administration, which has found itself on the defensive early in the president's second term amid other complaints of intrusions of privacy.
As details of the U.S. government's widespread telecommunications surveillance emerged last week in reports by the British newspaper The Guardian and The Washington Post, speculation built about who the source of the information might be.

Could it be a disgruntled high-ranking official at the National Security Agency, the U.S. electronic intelligence service?

It turned out to be Snowden, who until recently was working as a computer technician for a U.S. Defense contractor.

Snowden told the Guardian he began final preparations for his disclosures three weeks ago, copying documents and telling his boss he needed a few weeks off work for epilepsy treatment before traveling to Hong Kong.

Snowden told the newspaper he walked away from a $200,000 salary with the computer consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton, a comfortable life in Hawaii and his girlfriend for a good reason.

"I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the U.S. government to destroy privacy, Internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building," he said.

He said he chose Hong Kong because of its "spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent," and because he hoped its leaders would resist possible U.S. efforts to extradite him.

Hidden in Hong Kong

It was unclear Monday where Snowden was staying. But the two journalists who wrote the stories for The Guardian based on the information Snowden leaked -- Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill -- were at the W Hotel in the city's Kowloon district.

"From morning to night he's in his hotel room, has his meals in his room," MacAskill told CNN, declining to give any information about which hotel Snowden is in.

Hotel staff at the W said nobody under Snowden's name was staying there.

Mandy Chan, an employee at the Mira Hotel in the nearby neighborhood of Tsim Sha Tsui, said somebody by the name of Edward Snowden had checked out of the Mira on Monday. She declined to provide further details on his stay.

He has only left his room three times since he arrived in Hong Kong about three weeks ago, MacAskill said, "and that was only briefly."

The cost of living in a hotel is threatening to burn through Snowden's remaining funds, according to MacAskill.
"His credit card is going to max out pretty quickly," he said.

Snowden left the United States for Hong Kong without telling his family or girlfriend where he was going or why. Now he's concerned about the repercussions his actions could have for them.

"The terrible thing is he is worried about his family, that they'll be victimized," MacAskill said. "He's basically cut off from family."

But Snowden acted with full awareness of the possible consequences.

"He's thought this out; he's been thinking about this for a few years," MacAskill said. "He's not impetuous, and this wasn't a hasty decision."

Will he be extradited?

Snowden has not yet been charged with a crime, but a spokesman for the office of the Director of National Intelligence said Sunday the case has been referred to the Justice Department.

An investigation that could lead to charges is certain, said CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

"He's in enormous trouble," Toobin said Monday.

Any U.S. request to extradite him from Hong Kong could be complicated, however.

Although Hong Kong is part of communist-ruled China, the former British colony has a free press and tolerates political dissent under a semi-autonomous government.

Hong Kong's extradition treaty with the United States has exceptions for political crimes and cases when handing over a criminal suspect would harm the "defense, foreign affairs or essential public interest or policy" of either party.

"I think he looked around, this seemed the safest bet," MacAskill said.

Snowden hopes to get asylum, he added, with Iceland his first choice because of the way it dealt with Wikileaks.

Iceland is one of the countries that offered a degree of legal protection to Wikileaks, a group that facilitates the anonymous leaking of secret information through its website. The group reportedly once operated from there.

But Kristin Arnadottir, Iceland's ambassador to China, said that according to Icelandic law, a person can only submit an application for asylum once he or she is in Iceland.

'An enormous service'

But freedom of information advocates take a different view.

"I think he's done an enormous service," said Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers -- documents showing the government had lied about the progress of the Vietnam War.

"It gives us a chance, I think, from drawing back from the total surveillance state that we could say we're in the process of becoming, I'm afraid we have become," Ellsberg said on CNN Newsroom on Sunday.

In Snowden's case, The Guardian on Wednesday published a top secret court order demanding that Verizon Business Network Services turn over details of phone calls published from April 25 to July 19. Intelligence officials later confirmed the program, which analysts say likely covers all U.S. carriers.

On Thursday, The Guardian and The Washington Post disclosed the existence of PRISM, a program they said allows NSA analysts to extract the details of people's online activities -- including "audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents" and other materials -- from computers at Microsoft, Google, Apple and other Internet firms.

Intelligence officials similarly confirmed that program's existence, but said it only targets overseas residents who are not U.S. citizens.

How does U.S. data collection affect me?

Snowden said the NSA's reach poses "an existential threat to democracy." He said he had hoped the Obama administration would end the programs once it took office in 2009, but instead, he said, President Obama "advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in."

"I don't see myself as a hero, because what I'm doing is self-interested," he said. "I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy, and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

On Friday, Obama said he entered office skeptical of such programs, but decided to reauthorize them after a thorough vetting and the addition of unspecified additional safeguards. He called them only "modest encroachments on privacy" that help thwart terror attacks.

Defending the program

James Clapper, director of the Office of National Intelligence, had no direct comment on Snowden's admission, but noted, "Any person who has a security clearance knows that he or she has an obligation to protect classified information and abide by the law."

The Justice Department declined to comment, citing an ongoing investigation into the leak.

Leaders of the intelligence committees in Congress defended the program Sunday.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said it helped lead to convictions in two cases:

-- Najibullah Zazi, an Afghan-born Colorado man who pleaded guilty to conspiring to bomb targets in New York.

-- David Headley, who pleaded guilty to conducting advance surveillance for the Pakistani jihadists who attacked hotels and other targets in Mumbai, India, in 2008, killing 164 people.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2013, 03:56 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,566
Default

"These programs are within the law," Feinstein, D-California, told ABC's "This Week." And Rep. Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told ABC, "The inflammatory nature of the comments does not fit with what Dianne and I know this program really does."

"The instances where this has produced good -- has disrupted plots, prevented terrorist attacks -- is all classified," said Rogers, R-Michigan. "That's what's so hard about this."

Clapper: Programs authorized

Clapper's office declassified some details of the programs, which it said were "conducted under authorities widely known and discussed, and fully debated and authorized by Congress."

It said PRISM was created in 2008, targets "foreign targets located outside the United States" and gets reviewed by the administration, Congress and judges. And Rogers told reporters Sunday that "there is not a target on Americans."

Surveillance concerns 'fanciful,' Britain says

But Greenwald, the lead author of the Guardian pieces, told ABC's "This Week" that Americans need an "open, honest debate about whether that's the kind of country that we want to live in."

"These are things that the American people have a right to know," said Greenwald, a lawyer and civil liberties advocate. "The only thing being damaged is the credibility of political officials and the way they exercise power in the dark."

Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colorado, who has long called for greater transparency in how the government collects data on Americans, said the legal authority should be reopened for debate after last week's disclosures.

"Maybe Americans think this is OK, but I think the line has been drawn too far toward 'we're going to invade your privacy,' versus 'we're going to respect your privacy,'" Udall told CNN's "State of the Union."

The Obama administration is already under fire following revelations the Justice Department seized two months of phone records from Associated Press reporters and editors as part of an investigation into leaks of classified information.

'I do not expect to see home again'

The Guardian reported that Snowden grew up in North Carolina and Maryland. He joined the Army in 2003 but was discharged after breaking both his legs in a training accident. He never completed a high-school diploma but learned computer skills at a community college in Maryland.

He started his career as a security guard for an NSA facility at the University of Maryland, then went to work for the CIA in Internet security. In 2009, he got the first of several jobs with private contractors that worked with the NSA.

In a statement issued Sunday afternoon, Booz Allen said Snowden had worked for the company for less than three months. The news that he had leaked American secrets was "shocking" and if true, "represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm," the company said.

Snowden told the Guardian that he left for Hong Kong on May 20 without telling his family or his girlfriend what he planned.

"I do not expect to see home again," he told the paper, acknowledging the risk of imprisonment over his actions.

"You can't come up against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk," he said. "If they want to get you, over time they will."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:34 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,628
Default

I think Americans needed to find out what our government is doing data mining, collecting all this information on millions of it's citizens. I think we should all be alarmed by the things that are coming out about this and what the IRS has been doing, as well as Eric Holder and the DOJ going after journalists/press, and all the cover-ups with absolutely no accountability for any of it.

I'm not sure about this guy Snowden especially since he fled to Hong Kong, it doesn't make him look good. If they can prove he's leaked classified information to China that's a whole other matter and he should be treated as a traitor.

It's okay if President Obama and his gang of lawless peeps leak classified information to make him look good, but when others blow the whistle informing Americans about all the underhanded stuff going on under the umbrella of Obama's administration, it's a different story. Obama said his would be the most transparent administration, as we see it's been anything but!
__________________

Last edited by Bonnie; 06-11-2013 at 02:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:39 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,628
Default

They were just showing on FOX, "New Concerns about Ties between Google Chair and the White House".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:51 PM
County Mike's Avatar
County Mike County Mike is offline
Hailey's Dad
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Millville, NJ
Posts: 859
Default

Our government needs a complete overhaul.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,628
Default

What we need is a President who actually believes in upholding our Constitution and the rule of law; a President who believes in the separate but equal branches of government that provide checks and balances, and a President who accepts accountability and responsibility for what is going on during his watch! We need an Attorney General/DOJ that actually enforces the law instead of abusing the power of his office to favor or target certain Americans and then break and thwart the law in order to cover it all up.
__________________

Last edited by Bonnie; 06-11-2013 at 02:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 04:29 AM
NateR's Avatar
NateR NateR is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,737
Default

Since the government was acting outside of the US Constitution by collecting data on American citizens who have not been accused of a crime, then he is more of a whistleblower, not a traitor.

It's the Obama Administration that is betraying the American people here, not Edward Snowden.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2013, 05:38 AM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateR View Post
Since the government was acting outside of the US Constitution by collecting data on American citizens who have not been accused of a crime, then he is more of a whistleblower, not a traitor.

It's the Obama Administration that is betraying the American people here, not Edward Snowden.
I'm kind of shocked that so many are okay with this program...people like Charles Krauthammer and Karl Rove. Karl Rove was explaining the program on O'Reilly and he says, like the President has, that they aren't collecting information on "Americans", but I just don't believe it. Have you seen that huge complex they are building in Utah just for this purpose, to collect and store all this information? Between Benghazi, the IRS targeting religious and political conservative groups, the DOJ getting warrants targeting the AP and James Rosen of FOX News, we're supposed to TRUST their word that there are all these "safeguards" in place to protect us from abuse with this program...I don't think so!

The thing that makes me uneasy about Edward Snowden is that he fled to Hong Kong/China. He's telling the world all this information he was privy to which could make a lot of unsavory people/countries want to get ahold of him to find out exactly what secrets he knows that they could use against us. I'm glad we know about this program now, but I wish Snowden had stayed here to do it. He's in a lot of trouble. If he doesn't end up dead, I have no doubt the U.S. government will do everything in its power to get him back here and prosecute him. I'm sure they will want to make an example of him to discourage anyone else who might be thinking of exposing secrets to the public or our enemies.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:36 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I'm kind of shocked that so many are okay with this program...people like Charles Krauthammer and Karl Rove. Karl Rove was explaining the program on O'Reilly and he says, like the President has, that they aren't collecting information on "Americans", but I just don't believe it. Have you seen that huge complex they are building in Utah just for this purpose, to collect and store all this information? Between Benghazi, the IRS targeting religious and political conservative groups, the DOJ getting warrants targeting the AP and James Rosen of FOX News, we're supposed to TRUST their word that there are all these "safeguards" in place to protect us from abuse with this program...I don't think so!

The thing that makes me uneasy about Edward Snowden is that he fled to Hong Kong/China. He's telling the world all this information he was privy to which could make a lot of unsavory people/countries want to get ahold of him to find out exactly what secrets he knows that they could use against us. I'm glad we know about this program now, but I wish Snowden had stayed here to do it. He's in a lot of trouble. If he doesn't end up dead, I have no doubt the U.S. government will do everything in its power to get him back here and prosecute him. I'm sure they will want to make an example of him to discourage anyone else who might be thinking of exposing secrets to the public or our enemies.
i don't think there will be a lot of backlash from the other side as (and i am just guessing) there has probably been programs like this, or similar to this in past administrations ... its just the obama admin that couldn't keep the wraps on it .. they just mentioned up here in Canada that the gov't has been montoriing calls (something like monitoring outgoing calls to certain numbers to detect patterns) ... i am not saying its right, i just think there are so many things gov'ts around the world do that their citizens don't have a clue about ..

but, i think if this guy had security clearances for this and exposed it, he should be brought to justice on it ..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-11-2013, 01:48 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
i don't think there will be a lot of backlash from the other side as (and i am just guessing) there has probably been programs like this, or similar to this in past administrations ... its just the obama admin that couldn't keep the wraps on it .. they just mentioned up here in Canada that the gov't has been montoriing calls (something like monitoring outgoing calls to certain numbers to detect patterns) ... i am not saying its right, i just think there are so many things gov'ts around the world do that their citizens don't have a clue about ..

but, i think if this guy had security clearances for this and exposed it, he should be brought to justice on it ..
I understand the world is a different place and we have to be able to have the ability to track terrorists, it's the unknown human factor that makes a program like PRISM so scary. Look how the IRS is being used against political opponents, look at what our AG has done in the James Rosen case. I have little faith in these so-called safeguards they say are in place to guard against abuse of this program when we see just how easy it is for people in positions of power to abuse that power and use it against their own citizens.

I want us to be safe from terrorists, I just hate that we have to wonder now if we're safe from our own government.
__________________

Last edited by Bonnie; 06-11-2013 at 02:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.