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  #11  
Old 05-17-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
England blows. Get over it.


(or at least, what used to be America)


America want a proper trade relationship with the European Union....GOD Help them....There is only one Federal Government worse then the American Union...and more likely to spread chaos and Socialism.

That is Angela Merkels Fourth Reich.

I couldnt believe it when I heard the US President talk about it...If I was him, I'd find Trade with the Russians and Chinese more palatable. What especially made me giggle was what Obama said when asked what he thought about the British preparing to leave the Union...and he said that he thinks in close relationships one should try everything to make it work before they walk away.

Thats easy for him to say...He cant get re-ellected now...so he CAN walk away after signing the US up to being part of the European Union.

If you thought the British were bad.... Does Washington ever put out edicts concerning the length and bendy-ness of Cucumbers? Brussels has no quarms about idiotic laws like "that Cucumber is far to bendy to legally sell" OH YES THEY DID!
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2013, 03:56 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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I dont know how it is in Canada...but in England we have something called Employment Law, which forces capitalistic companies to treat their workers like human beings, and not like slaves. We believe that Citizens have certain rights when it comes to being employed....The biggest of those rights, is that the workers are treated fairly, and that Organisations should listen to the Workers if they have areas they feel that are not being addressed

We strongly believe in work under Contract Laws...there are next to no "at will" employers...and that is because we also believe in Rights against "Constructive and unfair dismissal" This means that you CAN NOT distroy someones way of life, by giving them the sack for no good reason, because you simply do not like them for example. It also means that there are standards that are not discrectionary for the company.

For Example, if the UFC has a contract with a fighter, it should be black and white, AND applicable to ALL. That means, if you loose a fight, you are cut. It doesnt mean, if you loose a fight you "might be" cut...because that means you "might not" and there is NO good objective reason to keep/cut fighters for the same reasons, without it being discrimination against a fighter.

Sure, if you want to cut, for example Paul Sass, after a loss...then so be it...but you better bloody cut Josh Koscheck also...and yet, they do not. That matter of fairness, is about treating people with dignity, rather then using them like inanimate objects. People are not possessions that you can discard if they displease...that is Slavery...and of all the Civilizations on this planet, NOONE shouts louder then the United States of America, about Freedoms and Fairness...and yet they just dont get it do they?

The same mistakes, and some are thrown out with the trash, and others elivated beyond their abilities. Noone who supports such things can claim any moral authority on Rights of individuals.

Oh its fine for the UFC to throw away a useless Briton, and keep a privaledged American, because they are private, and they "own" the company.

Funny...When England "OWNED" America, and treated HER subjects with that kinda malice, she was the first to throw an all out hissy fit of "how dare the King" That REALLY upsets me, it really annoys me, because I start to see it as the very epitome of Hypocracy on behalf of a Bunch of US Capitalists that wouldnt know a "GOD-Given Right" if it was written on a stone tablet and given them in an Ark of Covernant.

Not a Clue....

...and then for the UFC to continually lie about their motives "We're cutting because our Roster is too big" NO Your Cutting because you gave every man and his dog from Strikeforce an automatic entry into the institution for NO reason at all. "We're trying to make room to build our lower weight class divisions" Really? then explain the amount of Debutees that are appearing in Welterweight and above every time the US puts a show on that isnt in Las Vegas!!

Whilst some will no doubt say, what do you expect from a greedy multibillion capitalist company...the problem is, that can be comfortably ignored, until they do something that makes it personal. But when they start treating MY FRIENDS, people I know, unfairly...I can no longer hold my peace I'm afraid...what kinda person would that make me, if I did not display my complete disgust? I Love my Friends, and I am Loyal to them, if they are mistreated, then I see it as a sign of disrespect and dishonour towards myself as well as them. You insult my Friends, and you insult Me. You insult a member of my Family, and you Insult me.

I do not bear insults well, and notoriously hold grudges.
we have employment laws for sure, but if you ask me, the ufc created the contract and the fighters have signed the contract .. the easiest thing for the fighters to do, is create a fighter union .. the ufc cannot bar them from doing this .. .i honestly don't know how this has not been done as of yet .. every sports league pretty much has a union ... if all of the fighters get on the same page, they can create a fighters union to review the contracts, negotiate salaries etc ... but they haven't ... it will come eventually i assume ..
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2013, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
we have employment laws for sure, but if you ask me, the ufc created the contract and the fighters have signed the contract ..

2)the easiest thing for the fighters to do, is create a fighter union .. the ufc cannot bar them from doing this .. .i honestly don't know how this has not been done as of yet .. every sports league pretty much has a union ... if all of the fighters get on the same page, they can create a fighters union to review the contracts, negotiate salaries etc ... but they haven't ... it will come eventually i assume ..
1) Really thats great In England we have a whole strand of Civil Law which equates to Employment. Its led to the eradication generally speaking of "at will" employers. In the United States, most of the "Contracts" you see simply boil down to "if the employer doesnt want you, your fired, you have no rights to object" You say that Fighters can just go sign elsewhere...but bear in mind...probably 90% of America is rulled by At Will Employers. Heavens above...even Walmart in the United States is "At Will"

The presence of a contract, doesnt make it Contractual...Especially not in the UFC, where you are not contracted to work as a direct employee anyway. Employment wise, you would be classed as Subcontractor, Tax wise, you would probably be classed as Self Employed.

Now...both for the sake of Tax, and for the sake of Nationality, the defining basis of legality for a company is where the sales and contracts are processed. Thats how Google, for example is HUGE in England...but settles its finances on the continent...meaning, it doesnt fall under British Tax Law Practically speaking, their business is done here...but technically speaking all deals are processed in a country offering better coorperation tax Now most permanent American Companies in this country HAVE to coorperate with British Law...Walmart in the UK is both Unionized and NOT an At Will Employer...but because the UFC appears and dissapears, effectively doesnt exist, but inhabits a host arena....you know, officially speaking, its not here...so it may treat its British personnel like its American.

2) There is a Huge Problem with that. Firstly, to be a successful Union it would have to have legitamacy and run in all States and Countries where MMA runs...or at least in the entireity of Continental America at the very least.

Secondly...its going to have to have cross-promotional presence....That means this Union would be available NOT JUST to the UFC...but also Bellator et al. Whilst that works in a competative environment between businesses...its probably not going to work with the turn over of Staff moving between the same competators. You know, the Union for the supermarkets is the same...but you dont get people from walmart jumping ship permanantly to the opposition, and then back.

Finally...it has to generally be acknowledged and backed by 80% of fighters...Tell me how the hell you would coordinate backing of, essentially, a trillion independants?? Not to mention that the sway of the coorperative would be from the majority of members...now suppose, for arguments sake, ALL of AKA were members of this Union...but only two members of Team Alpha Male were part. There is a danger that the Union would become partisan towards particular UFC Camps, and Particular managers...GOD help us all if Greg Jackson, for example, was ellected by Union Members to be President!!! We'd have boring fights til the cows come home legitamized for all eternity.

The only way to do that well, would be for a certain group of Non-Fighters, yet qualified personnel to be Union Reps...and for the Coorperative to exist on an individual level BUT for Voting purposes, only allow ONE VOTE PER TRAINING CAMP. Remind you a little bit of the US Presidential ellections? Each Training Camp would have to be able to conduct a vote, and its majority be carried by the Camp Representative to the Union.

Now ask yourself, what counts as a Camp? Any Gym with MMA Aspirations? what about Gyms who have Chains...should each outlet be classed as a separate camp...therefore giving advantage to those already well established camps with multiple outlets...What happens when Fighters change Camps? What happens when they go and train at other gyms?

Then...here is the final ding dong....soooooo Fighters are usually managed by Management groups independant of Individual Camps...For example, Suckerpunch Entertainment Manages Fighters in a range of different Camps. They find it hard enough with conflict of interests, when their fighters have to fight each other. Whilst this union can save fighters from Businesses, it cant do anything about the Managers of the fighters, nor fight camps...and sometimes they seem to be as bad as the promotions.

You have to also ask yourself...will fighters be willing to pay into such a scheme. Should it be voluntary, or should it be forced...from the Business perspective, if this was forced it would be then hard to claim wouldnt it, as any fighter would have access to a Union and no come back if they went up against the powerful and were to fall.

Finally...This Union would have its work cut out. In order to be effective, the Union would have to have enough Fighters contributing to try and force their recognition. If a Union was unable, for example, to distroy an entire UFC card, why should the UFC listen to it? Would the Fighters really dare to vote for a Strike...when they only get paid like three times a year anyway.

Its no use having the debutees...you would have to have people like Jon Jones, turn round and say to Dana White that if he doesnt listen to the Union, he can forget his Main event...and then the entire card would basically have to have the courage not just to say it...but to follow through. There would be a large proportion of fans on the Companies side, simply because if this happened, the UFC would be unable to provide, and ultimately that would mean mma deprivation for the fans...and whilst the fans would no doubt turn on the UFC...they might also turn on the fighters who made the stand....thats a REALLY dangerous game to play if your entire career is based on public opinion as a reaction to what you do.

You would have to get the media on your side to stand a chance
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2013, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post

Secondly...its going to have to have cross-promotional presence....That means this Union would be available NOT JUST to the UFC...but also Bellator et al.
Not true at all. Sports leagues in the US have unions for that certain league. The NFL Players Union is for NFL players, not every person who is a professional football player. The UFC union could simply do the same. The issue comes in getting the UFC to accept a union and the only way to do that is if your top 5% of fighters decide they want to join.
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  #15  
Old 05-24-2013, 06:45 PM
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Tyburn Tyburn is offline
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Not true at all. Sports leagues in the US have unions for that certain league. The NFL Players Union is for NFL players, not every person who is a professional football player. The UFC union could simply do the same. The issue comes in getting the UFC to accept a union and the only way to do that is if your top 5% of fighters decide they want to join.
I'm suprised...that wouldnt work in the UK...the whole idea of a wider Union is to stop it being focused on one particular institution.
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