The UFC have a big name to cut from last night...

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by kevint13

1) But this is no different here. Times are tough here too and many people are staying in jobs that they absolutely hate because they don't have a choice. I chose to walk away from a situation like this. Thankfully I have been able to 'make things work' and am currently back in school, which I will be for the next 3 years.

We do have the ability to walk away from a crappy job, I am very thankful for this as my job had destroyed my health both physically and mentally. I guess I would rather have this right than guaranteed employment.



2) Upcoming fighters are different than contenders. Maybe the UFC does not want to develop fighters and they want contenders now. Is that wrong?



3) I guess I do. But Koscheck has assumed that role and he seems to enjoy being the 'villain'. So I don't see an issue with that and I am sure I am not alone.



4) You are obviously referring to Paul Sass. Let's look at a few other stats: He had 4 strikes total in his fight with Castillo....4...and that is a fight that went to a decision. His other loss was a first round submission. Sass is a talented fighter, but right now I don't think he is a contender or close to it nor are the two guys who beat him.

Now take a look at the UFC's LW division. Have you seen how many fighters they have under contract? Some of these guys will be gone here too, they just haven't fought yet this year.



5) Kissing ass happens everywhere and in a lot of cases it works for people. Life is cut-throat and people will resort to extreme lows to get what they want/need. You can't let it bother you because it isn't going to change.



6) That sucks, I feel for you and can sort of relate. You stuck up for yourself, I admire that. Just like you are doing on this, you are sticking up for the fighters, some being your friends. While we will disagree on if this was just, I can't argue against your passion. These fighters will do the same, they will fight again and hopefully give the UFC a reason to bring them back....they are fighters afterall.



7) It doesn't matter, my point was that he was given many chances and he lost, and in all buy one he was stopped. Most other fighters would have been cut after 3 losses, yet he lost 5 in a row. There had to be a reason that they kept him, which could easily be viewed as favoritism.



8) I don't agree with a lot of things that Dana says or does, but there are some things that I do. He has said 'Never' to things only to do them, but when has it ever been wrong to change your mind or actually get informed and make a rational decision?

9) I still don't buy that he is into women's MMA, he is into Ronda. I really wanted to see her lose last night just to see what he would do. You want to talk about favoritism, there it is.

10) In all, I think Dana is a good guy and does his job the best that he can. I can't imagine all that he deals with all the time....the guy seriously lives this. He has a passion for the sport that cannot be denied, but it is definitely business first. I don't hold that against him.

1) well I certainly know how it feels to be stuck in a job. The difference is that the cost of living in England is vastly more then the cost of living in America...I couldnt believe how cheap things were...and the sizes of everything are much bigger...even the standard size bottle of pop is bigger and less money...It was fantastic ...but I suppose its relative...for example, it might be cheaper to live in America...but that probably means the minimum wage is less also...without doing research I cant say

2) Nope...thats not wrong...but like I said, Koscheck is not a contender either...so if thats how they want it...they need to give Koscheck the boot aswell...thats logical...no?

3) I didnt say that was wrong...I just dont share it...probably because I ignore everything he says and only really base my opinion on his fighting ability...if I wanted the whole hero and villain I would go back to Professional Wrestling

4) His striking has certainly improved
I didnt say Sass was a Contender...I said he was exciting, had won more then lost, was only finished once, and hadnt lost three in a row...based on that I dont think he deserves to be cut...but if they are only having contenders, thats fine...so long as they cut ALL people who are not contenders...that INCLUDES Josh Koscheck...I actually know both Paul Sass and Terry Etim...dont really know Che Mills, although I saw him fight live once...I dont approve of the crowd he hangs around with...Terry used to do the refs job at Cage Gladiators, spoke to him a couple of times, seems alright...but Paul Sass was the person I studied during my time at Cage Gladiators. He's actually really quiet, to the point of nearly being shy, but terribly funny The other person I studied was a fighter called Jay Gladden...but he never made it to the UFC in the first place...he was a difficult person at first.

Those were the days...I miss those days

5) I know...but injustice does bother me...and I do tackle it, one circumstance at a time. I will die trying to change what I see as wrong, no matter how ingrained in both our cultures these things may be

6) That expirience changed my whole life, it also took me to the very edge and back. Do you want to know the real ironic thing? That was one of the factors that got me pushed out of London...I was so caught up in that battle that I couldnt look for another job for when my tenure ran out. Then the following year when I broke my fingers, I couldnt work...and then the tenure DID run out, and I had to leave...I ended up back with my parents, in a town I dont like, and in a job which is considered one step up from the jobs you dont want to be doing. Low paid, unprestegious, hard manual labour...a far cry from having been a university graduate and working in one of the top, finest cathedrals in the entire world. I have worked in places that have brought me into contact with Royalty...and worked in places where you are treated like slaves, by everyone, not just the people you work for, but the people you are brought into contact with.

Do you want to know what happened to the Priest...the Senior Clergy person who was charged specifically with my care, but who was responsible for what happened to me?

Well, when his tenure ran out, they made him a Suferegen Bishop, they consecrated him as one of those not only called by GOD, not only Ordained, but Made Holy by GOD, Consecrated. After that, they moved him to become a Proper Bishop, with a Throne and his own Cathedral. He is now in The House of Bishops, reserved for one of the top Fifty Three most senior people in the Denomination....When he has served his time and moves into the top 23 Bishops in terms of length of reign, he will become a Lords Spiritual, and he will gain a seat in The House of Lords...the Upper Chamber of the British Government, where he will sit until his retirement at 70 years of age. If he does good work, he might be granted a life peerage and be able to have a seat until his death.

Now you see why I despise a system that rewards imorality over hard work.

Next year will mark a decade since. I forgave him, six months after the conclusion of the war. but I have never forgotten what he did, and its changed my entire theology and entire ethos on Employment. He told me that what happened was "Regrettable" but on three separate occasions, including that day, the day of the Easter Vigil, and at my Exit interview, he flatly refused to appologise for what he had done.

7) he was cut after three losses...He was demoted to WEC.

8) there is changing your mind...and never saying what you mean...Dana White has changed his mind so often, he's entered the "never saying what you mean" category

9) I dont acknowledge the Womens MMA in the UFC. I dont watch it, I dont predict on it, I dont recap it. They have the right to fight, and the UFC has the right to display it...but I dont want to know.

10) I dont know him, so I can only go on what I see. He has such a presence in the UFC it will be hard to know what a UFC without him would look, act, or fair like. I dont know if thats good, or bad. Sometimes a dynamic person can be responsible for keeping a ship at sea...sometimes they are so dynamic that in their wake, the ship itself sinks...

You are such fun to discuss with

[flo]

Thank you for your kind words about the garden, Dave.

[County Mike]

Dave: Why do you fail to grasp the reality of who goes/stays?

It's really pretty simple. If a fighter can make money for the UFC, he stays. If the UFC will lose money on him, he goes.

Sell tickets, whether by winning, talking crap, being exciting, etc. and you'll keep your job. If you're boring and people don't want to pay to watch you fight, you're gone.

UFC is a business and when it comes to MMA, they do it best. Don't expect them to change because of some guideline you think they should follow.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by County Mike

Dave: Why do you fail to grasp the reality of who goes/stays?

It's really pretty simple. If a fighter can make money for the UFC, he stays. If the UFC will lose money on him, he goes.

Sell tickets, whether by winning, talking crap, being exciting, etc. and you'll keep your job. If you're boring and people don't want to pay to watch you fight, you're gone.

UFC is a business and when it comes to MMA, they do it best. Don't expect them to change because of some guideline you think they should follow.

My interest is in how multi-million pound At Will Employers treat their Employees.

What I cant understand is why, one moment you shout about your rights as individuals to own firearms...and the next moment are absolutely fine with multi-million pound companies treating people like they are worthless and not affording them any rights to protect their livelihoods

The Joke is...I feel with all the British Employment laws...we are still effectively slaves...how much worse must it be for thousands of Americans employed in an at will manner

From the sounds of it...you voluntarily give up your rights to work...you sign away your life to the few filthy rich people at the top who dont actually give a damn about you....only what you can do for them...and the moment they think you are no longer of use to them...they discard you.

Its funny...but the truth is, our cultures actually dont change underneith at all, they simply pretend to be civilized. They snort and scoff at primative culture for being barbaric...when the truth is, minus the actual swift killing...they are just as bad...if not worse...at least the Great Empires and Republics of old, didnt pretend to be liberators...and did not shy away from slave labour.

You have to understand, I am not against the ideal of slavory, I have no problem with a heirachy...my issue is the treatment of the workers by those at the top of the heirachy...and my issue is equally with people who think that because it is so prevelent, it isnt a problem, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

The problem is a lot of people are apathetic, and the rest are actually extremely well trained, if bondage is all you have ever known and been used to, why would you aspire to change that. You would know your role, and act accordingly.

Thankfully I am in a position where I CAN speak out against organisations who would mistreat those who belong to them, well at least in the case of the UFC...and...whatsmore...at least I do it respectfully...you should here what other Britons are saying about the UFC and its management right now some of their langauge would make Dana White himself blush

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by flo

Thank you for your kind words about the garden, Dave.

I meant Every Word

[County Mike]

There's a big difference between our government (that is supposed to work for us) and an employer who we work for.

If you want to stay employed or improve your position, make yourself more valuable. Learn a skill, market yourself, etc.

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by County Mike

There's a big difference between our government (that is supposed to work for us) and an employer who we work for.

You should have Rights under BOTH...because you may need protecting from both

We should always strive to treat people in the correct manner...You act like a person employed by a company is the property of the company...like the Employers OWN the workers...which in modern day society they are not supposed to do...but even if they did...think about people who own living things...like Children, or Animals....Just because you own them and are in charge of them doesnt mean you should mistreat them...infact they are a burden....for they do not feed themselves, pay for themselves...that means you not only own them, but have responsibilities because of that ownership.

I am advocating the same for employers. They own their workers...that also means they have responsibilities towards how they are treated.

[Max]

The UFC, just like every sports league, is going to decide who they keep based on four factors.

1. how good is the person at the sport they play
2. how much money they make
3. how much stress do they cause their organization
4. how much money they make the organization

If your pros outweigh your cons you keep your job, if not you are gone. Thats the way it works in sports. Sports is not the same as other jobs, I'm never going to walk into my job and been told I've been traded to another company. In most cases a top 5 guy in their weight class is safe, aside from that a loos could get you cut. It's not as though fighters don't know this, I woudl bet that if you asked every fighter that was cut if they went into their last fight thinking there job might be on the line they would say yes.