Delivering newspaper, risky business

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

Well, we can be thankful they didn't end up killing those people. I agree that something needs to be done about the police officers involved in those incidents, but I don't agree that they are the same as Dorner. He set out to kill; I don't think they necessarily set out to kill him at the beginning, but I think Dorner made it a probable outcome if he didn't kill himself first. When you say they are EXACTLY like Dorner, how do you mean, exactly?

He was a former cop, one of them before he was fired, he was trained in weapons, he knew how they thought, worked, and reacted to situations so all that gave him an advantage. He set out to kill cops and their families, and he said he wasn't going to be taken alive. It's understandable every law enforcement officer out there would be on edge especially after he started killing, doing exactly what he said he was going to do! It doesn't excuse recklessness on the police's part, but I think we can all appreciate the tremendous pressure and stress they were under trying to find this guy. As long as they didn't know where he was, each of them was wearing a target on their back (not mention their families!). Dorner put a target on his own back, they didn't. His motive was revenge, and he wasn't going to stop until he was dead.

Police aren't perfect and they should be held accountable for their actions, but Dorner is the killer here, he's the one who set all this in motion.

Careful there...because that depends on what you think the trigger was. IF the Trigger was to be wrongly sacked, and if that was ever shown to be a good cause of that being the case, technically speaking, those who fired him set all this in motion.

I dont advocate getting revenge...but I DO understand how it feels to be squashed by a large institution which presents a squeaky clean image, and then plays really dirty politics. I DO understand that where successful that can distroy the life and livelihoods of the people who are hard done by...and these people who engage in that, they never are bought to justice in civil cases.

There should be some accountability within the workplace...now in England there is some accountability by law...but that law doesnt exist in the United States...again, Unions can be abused, they can start sponcering Governmental parties, they can start to cause problems if they dont get their way, when its injust that their demands are met through their sheer size...but they also serve a long forgotten function...to stop some capitalist sacking you simply because he doesnt like you...or framing you with excuses because he doesnt like you in order to get you into trouble...or...telling lies about you. You are NOT protected against that by Law in the US...there is NO proper way to get justice if that happens to you...there isnt proper justice in the UK either...but there are safeguards in law which act as reasonable deterents.

Good men can go bad if pushed to far. they can psychologically snap, or act irratically because they are hurting, or angry, not just at whats happened to them...but what DOESNT happen to those who acted against them.

As far as the mass murderer is concerned....He DID NOT start this....He got to the stage where he felt this was the only way to draw attention to the injustice.

Many families in England are suffering a lot, many businesses also, because of a few wealthy American Businessmen who bent the rules in the financial sector. Noone has been bought to justic over that...being removed from your post with a pay off, doesnt count

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Neezar

Finally! My thread gets some action!







Not the kind I was looking for but, hey, beggars can't be choosers.

I'f I'd known it was your thread...I'd have posted even more

[Bonnie]

Originally Posted by Neezar

Finally! My thread gets some action!

Not the kind I was looking for but, hey, beggars can't be choosers.

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Careful there...because that depends on what you think the trigger was. IF the Trigger was to be wrongly sacked, and if that was ever shown to be a good cause of that being the case, technically speaking, those who fired him set all this in motion.

I dont advocate getting revenge...but I DO understand how it feels to be squashed by a large institution which presents a squeaky clean image, and then plays really dirty politics. I DO understand that where successful that can distroy the life and livelihoods of the people who are hard done by...and these people who engage in that, they never are bought to justice in civil cases.

There should be some accountability within the workplace...now in England there is some accountability by law...but that law doesnt exist in the United States...again, Unions can be abused, they can start sponcering Governmental parties, they can start to cause problems if they dont get their way, when its injust that their demands are met through their sheer size...but they also serve a long forgotten function...to stop some capitalist sacking you simply because he doesnt like you...or framing you with excuses because he doesnt like you in order to get you into trouble...or...telling lies about you. You are NOT protected against that by Law in the US...there is NO proper way to get justice if that happens to you...there isnt proper justice in the UK either...but there are safeguards in law which act as reasonable deterents.

Good men can go bad if pushed to far. they can psychologically snap, or act irratically because they are hurting, or angry, not just at whats happened to them...but what DOESNT happen to those who acted against them.

As far as the mass murderer is concerned....He DID NOT start this....He got to the stage where he felt this was the only way to draw attention to the injustice.

You say you don't advocate revenge, but it seems like you are justifying his actions and saying he is not responsible for them. Even before this was over people were justifying his actions, and now they want to paint him as a hero. We don't know that he got a raw deal when he was fired, they've re-opened his case from back then. Even if that were the case, it doesn't justify his actions. Lots of people get raw deals in life, it doesn't give you license to go out and kill and exact vengeance. Even if it is proven that he was treated fairly during that whole process when he was fired, some people will still choose not to believe it and they'll make him into a martyr. If he really wanted to be a martyr for injustice, he should have given himself up and gone to prison, then Hollywood would have made a documentary about him and he could have been the new celeb cause with the usual celebrities pleading for his release and telling the world what a raw deal he got.

[flo]

Originally Posted by Neezar

Finally! My thread gets some action!







Not the kind I was looking for but, hey, beggars can't be choosers.

LMAO!!!

[County Mike]

Originally Posted by Neezar

Finally! My thread gets some action!







Not the kind I was looking for but, hey, beggars can't be choosers.

Hey baby! If you're looking for action, just give me a call.

[VCURamFan]

Originally Posted by County Mike

Hey baby! If you're looking for action, just give me a call.

We are TWO WILD & CRAZY GUYS!!!

[County Mike]

Haha

[Tyburn]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

You say you don't advocate revenge, but it seems like you are justifying his actions and saying he is not responsible for them. Even before this was over people were justifying his actions, and now they want to paint him as a hero. We don't know that he got a raw deal when he was fired, they've re-opened his case from back then. Even if that were the case, it doesn't justify his actions. Lots of people get raw deals in life, it doesn't give you license to go out and kill and exact vengeance. Even if it is proven that he was treated fairly during that whole process when he was fired, some people will still choose not to believe it and they'll make him into a martyr. If he really wanted to be a martyr for injustice, he should have given himself up and gone to prison, then Hollywood would have made a documentary about him and he could have been the new celeb cause with the usual celebrities pleading for his release and telling the world what a raw deal he got.

I'm NOT justifying Revenge...but I can see FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW.

He would most definately have blamed his actions on having been fired from the police force. The reason I brought it up was the fact that this is the same force thats shown its incompetance during the manhunt...you have to ask...if they are incompetant in one area, and thus untrustworthy in that area...can you believe anything they say.

As for Giving himself up. I have a suspicion that once it began, he had no intention of living beyond its conclusion. It is a form of suicide, he quite deliberately went past the point of no return, because I imagine he felt he had lost everything and there was no point in continuing with life...all that was left was to spread awareness and get as much vengence as possible before the inevitable...either being killed by a police office during the chase, or killing himself when the chase was concluded.

I do happen to believe that once you are in that sort of state, you are NOT in a normal frame of mind. I personally still believe that you should be accountable for your actions because this is NOT clinical Maddness we are talking about...but its a VERY different state of awareness...Most people stay in a single state their whole lives...some go mad...but the clue to being mad is, YOU DONT KNOW IT....now, he had full awareness of what he was doing, even if the State of Mind he was in had transformed him beyond all recognition of who he was as a person before. Fear and Anxiety and depression can change someones State of Mind for a long period of time. Suicidal tendancies and self harm are a short term change in the state of mind, There is clinical maddness of course...the other things that can do it are some types of drugs, these are usually short term. Deep states of meditation, and some natural physiological stimuli, like that of an athlete in an almost trance like state can do it...but those are for short times.

I know about this, because I have experience of having lived for about 9 months in a completely different state of mind. I am on permanent medication to stop this ever occuring again and have been for almost an entire decade.

Its a crazy thing to try and explain to someone who hasnt experienced it...but its a completely different way of thinking, acting, and being...its like a different you both personality wise and mannerisms. So you see that whilst I dont condone his actions, I actually do understand him, and the psychological processes that led to what he did. I dont agree with his argument because I believe in self discipline and accountability...BUT I can understand for a person who didnt have that exactly what would be the case.