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Old 02-11-2013, 12:39 PM
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Default Pope Benedict Resigns



I didnt know a Pope was able to resign! apparently in their entire History, the Papacy in Rome (not to be confused with Rival Popes of Byzantia) has only faced this problem twice.

1415, Pope Gregory was deposed by his own Cardinals and forced out of office. He was exhiled, but it was against his will and they did not replace him until he died. So never was two Roman Popes Reigning at once.

Before that there is signs that Celestine V resigned. Boniface was so angry with Celestine for his resignation, he captured him by force and locked him up to Keep him in Rome...he wasnt Consecrated until Celestine died in captivity (though that was within the year, and some suspect Murder to help Celestine on his way)

But Bertone...who is the chief Cardinal, and technically incharge in the absence of a Pope...he's current Vatican head of State I think...says he's pressing for a more immediate conclave....The ellection of a new pope BEFORE the death of the old one hasnt ever happened I dont think.

I knew something was up with Benedicts health, he's been going down hill for over a year...BUT I knew something was a foot the day before yesterday, Saint Peters Basillica celebrated a Mass to celebrate the Order of Malta...and the President was NOT Benedict, but Bertone...I was wondering why that was
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:44 PM
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I think it's long overdue for the Papacy to come to an end. It's an illegitimate establishment anyway that has no biblical foundation.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:23 PM
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I think it's long overdue for the Papacy to come to an end. It's an illegitimate establishment anyway that has no biblical foundation.
Its based on a Great Assumption, that most sane people having read the scripture, and having seen the Apostolic Line are prepared to admit, its NOT what it claims to be. Personally, I dont mind saying its the head of Romanism, nor that it occupies historically the same diocise as Peter

I DO have a problem that they are Apostolic Successors, because I dont believe the Apostolic Gifts of Peter were passed on to his successor, neither do I think its the correct context to backdate your insitution for three hundred years...the first Popes were not "pope" but simply the leaders of the Early Church based in Rome...and not even the sole leaders at that.

Finally...even if Apostolic Succession was true...why would you have a group of people being Christs representative, dissagreeing with each other? THATS what gets me...if they were all of the same mind and heart, they wouldnt be changing things that earlier Popes said were true...as not even Peter with his apostolic gift could change an absolute truth.


The Papacy Is not coming to an end....Rome has decreed a Conclave.

They will ellect a new Pope by Easter, and then they will consecrate him.

Its begining to come out now that when Pope John Paul II fell ill but clung on to the papacy, Pope Benedict was reasonably high up, and he saw that as the Pope couldnt do so much, the Roman Curia, went well beyond its design brief and started to make decisions it had no right to essentially make.

It is now thought that Benedict has realized his mental health is about to break down, he knows that if he stays as Pope, his position will weaken, and the Curia will advance...as he dissagreed with that happening over his predecessor hes decide there is only one way to prevent the Curia from yet another growth spurt.

That is to have an able bodied and minded Pope at all times, to make the executive decisions, so the Roman Curia doesnt.

Think of this analogy. The Roman Curia equates to the Federal Republic of the US. Without the consitution, or with a weakened constitution, the Federal System expands to fill the gap, until its at odds with the constitution itself...as has happened in your country. In this analogy, as the Soverign, The Pope is supposed to be the basis, around which the curia works...with a weakened Pope, the result is the same...the Curia fill in the blanks.

One could say he's Sacrificing him self, for the sake of the Papacy in the future. I'm sure if he felt he could die reasonably strong in mind, he could keep control...but if he goes dulally-tat as people suspect is whats happening to him...he needs to give way to someone capable of leading, or else the Curia will step in.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:37 PM
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I didnt know a Pope was able to resign! apparently in their entire History, the Papacy in Rome (not to be confused with Rival Popes of Byzantia) has only faced this problem twice.

1415, Pope Gregory was deposed by his own Cardinals and forced out of office. He was exhiled, but it was against his will and they did not replace him until he died. So never was two Roman Popes Reigning at once.

Before that there is signs that Celestine V resigned. Boniface was so angry with Celestine for his resignation, he captured him by force and locked him up to Keep him in Rome...he wasnt Consecrated until Celestine died in captivity (though that was within the year, and some suspect Murder to help Celestine on his way)

But Bertone...who is the chief Cardinal, and technically incharge in the absence of a Pope...he's current Vatican head of State I think...says he's pressing for a more immediate conclave....The ellection of a new pope BEFORE the death of the old one hasnt ever happened I dont think.

I knew something was up with Benedicts health, he's been going down hill for over a year...BUT I knew something was a foot the day before yesterday, Saint Peters Basillica celebrated a Mass to celebrate the Order of Malta...and the President was NOT Benedict, but Bertone...I was wondering why that was
From what they are reporting, a lot of people within the Catholic organization were taken by surprise and shocked by this announcement. I was shocked when I heard about it; I've never heard of this being done before. But, maybe like you say, he knows he can no longer carry out his duties, and he's trying to give them a little more time to pick his successor.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:51 PM
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On the show, The Five, the gang was talking about who might be the next Pope...Greg Gutfeld says, "I heard Sandra Fluke wants a non-Catholic in there."
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:00 PM
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From what they are reporting, a lot of people within the Catholic organization were taken by surprise and shocked by this announcement. I was shocked when I heard about it; I've never heard of this being done before. But, maybe like you say, he knows he can no longer carry out his duties, and he's trying to give them a little more time to pick his successor.
The Vatican have been very quiet about Benedicts health issues...but I have noticed them. I remember when he stopped walking and started to be wheeled down the nave on a moving platform...then he had to take a rest between Mass and Urbi Et Orbi at Easter...and then he had to be carried up and down stairs during masses abroad by priests either side of him.

He looked ghaunt...and sometimes like he wasnt really there. Finally he began stumbling over his words during his speech a month or so ago. A lot of the perceptive people started to believe that he was on a physical decline. I, myself said that I didnt think he would make it to 2015 if his health didnt improve...

But none of us expected his resignation...we just expected him to get worse and worse until he ended up bed ridden and then dead. But now we dont think its the physical health...we think its the mental health...he specifically mentions mental strength, in his resignation...A few of us who observe him carefully believe that recently he may have been diagnosed with something like dementia or alzheimers...we think that he knows that he's got the early onset of something that could render him incapable, but not kill him for years...and he's fearful, after seeing JPII be unwell a while before death, that the Roman Curia advances over a weak Pope like ivy over a wall...and he wants to keep the Curia in his place...

The only way to stop this would be to remove himself somehow. Despositions simply dont happen these days, so he knows the chances of being assassinated are too small. He cant be exhiled by an invader, because that doesnt happen these days either...Short of committing suicide...how is he able to remove himself...So he has decided to resign...to fully remove himself, and to force the Curia to ellect someone else...so that they dont have the time to inch over papal soverignty between the onset of his illness, and his death, which could be years...imagine how far the curia could go if they temporarilly ran the Vatican for him, FOR YEARS...Would they, on his death, decide they didnt really need a new Pope? Would they refuse to give up some of the things they did for the Pope whilst he was away, thus shrink his office?

Thats what the latest thinking on his resignation is all about. It seems that whilst the Vatican, and the Papacy dont mind individuals on a council acting politically, as they will do now prior to the conclave...the papacy DOESNT like consensus in a council that could be as effective at asserting a will, as itself.

When there is an absence of Pope, the Administration declaires a Sede Vacante...litterly, "the Empty Chair" at that point the Vatican is run by someone called The Camerlengo who is chosen by the reigning Pope to be entrusted with running the Vatican in the case of an inter-regnum. This person is always a high ranking official within the Curia...in this case Cardinal Bertone is the Vatican Secretary of State.

Whats very interesting is that Ratzinger was never Camelengo to JPII but they bought someone out of retirement to perform that function, someone who by definition was too old to vote, or be ellected...this technically meant that Ratzinger could play at being Camelengo AND get ellected....I guess that he WOULD have been Camerlengo...but JPII was so ill, that when the former person who was charged with that role retired a year before his death, he was unable to appoint someone new to the role...THATS why Benedict conducted the Funeral of JPII. He was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith...the part of the Roman Curia from which the Inquizition had been launched eons ago.

He seems to be a complete mixture...A political that got himself ellected, Yet as head of the Inquizition, increadibly merciful to priests who committed terrible crimes, In nature terribly Conservative...yet loved and served the most liberal of Popes since Vatican II...A power hungry German who declaired that he didnt care how low numbers of faithful dropped to, so long as they were true romans...sacrificed his own pontificate for the future preservation of the absolute when applied to his Office...a right paradox.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:01 AM
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On the show, The Five, the gang was talking about who might be the next Pope...Greg Gutfeld says, "I heard Sandra Fluke wants a non-Catholic in there."
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:46 PM
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This was the scene at Saint Peters Basillica the night Pope Benedict announced his resignation.

I'm NOT joking

Aparently, Saint Peters Basillica was hit by a stray bolt of lightning


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Old 02-12-2013, 06:51 PM
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Lightning bolt hit Vatican not once but TWICE hours after Pope's shock resignation

The lightning touched the roof of St. Peter's Basilica, one of the holiest Catholic churches, hours after Benedict XVI's shock announcement

The spooky moment, believed by some, to be a sign from God, was caught on camera by AFP photographer Filippo Monteforte.

Today he described how he took the incredible image which has been beamed all over the world.

He said: "I took the picture from St. Peter’s Square while sheltered by the columns. It was icy cold and raining sheets. When the storm started, I thought that lightning might strike the rod, so I decided it was worth seeing whether – if it DID strike – I could get the shot at exactly the right moment.”

Filippo, armed with a 50mm lens, waited for more than two hours and was rewarded for his patience with not one but two bolts.

He added: “The first bolt was huge and lit up the sky, but unfortunately I missed it. I had better luck the second time, and was able to snap a couple of images of the dome illuminated by the bolt.”

The lightning touched the dome of St. Peter's Basilica, one of the holiest Catholic churches, after the Pope's shock admission he lacks strength to do the job.

The Vatican stressed that no specific medical condition prompted Benedict's decision to quit - the first pontiff to do so in 600 years.

The move surprised even his closest aides, even though Benedict, 85, had made clear in the past he would step down if he became too old or infirm.

In recent years, the Pope has slowed down significantly, cutting back his foreign travel and limiting his audiences.

He now goes to and from the altar in St Peter's Basilica on a moving platform, to spare him the long walk down the aisle. Occasionally he uses a cane.

His 89-year-old brother, Georg Ratzinger, said doctors had recently advised the Pope not to take any more trans-Atlantic trips.

"His age is weighing on him," Mr Ratzinger said. "At this age my brother wants more rest."

Benedict announced his resignation in Latin during a meeting of Vatican cardinals, calling it "a decision of great importance for the life of the church."

He emphasised that carrying out the duties of being pope requires "both strength of mind and body."

He told the cardinals: "I have come to the certainty that my strengths due to an advanced age are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry."

The Vatican will hold a conclave before Easter to elect a new pope, with Benedict holding great sway over who should succeed him to lead the world's one billion Catholics.

Benedict has already hand-picked the bulk of the College of Cardinals - the princes of the church who will elect the next pope - to guarantee an equally-conservative legacy.

There are no obvious front-runners to replace him - the same situation when Benedict was elected in 2005 after the death of Pope John Paul II.

Given half of the world's Catholics live in the global south, there will once again be arguments for a pope to come from the developing world.

When Benedict was elected aged 78, he was the oldest pope chosen in nearly 300 years.

He raised the possibility of resigning if he were too old or sick to continue, when he was interviewed in 2010 for the book "Light of the World."

"If a pope clearly realises that he is no longer physically, psychologically and spiritually capable of handling the duties of his office, then he has a right, and under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign," Benedict said.

The former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had an intimate view as Pope John Paul II, with whom he had worked closely for nearly a quarter-century, suffered through the debilitating end of his papacy.

The Vatican said immediately after his resignation that Benedict would go to Castel Gandolfo, a summer retreat south of Rome, and then would live in a cloistered monastery.

Benedict said he would serve the church for the remainder of his days "through a life dedicated to prayer."
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
This was the scene at Saint Peters Basillica the night Pope Benedict announced his resignation.

I'm NOT joking

Aparently, Saint Peters Basillica was hit by a stray bolt of lightning


Stray?...it looks like it came straight down!
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