Go Back   Matt-Hughes.com Official Forums > General Discussions > The Woodshed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:51 PM
adamt adamt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I admit I recoiled when you started firing. You don't need ear protection?
yes, i should have been wearing ear protection, my ears never rang afterwards or anything, but it's long term damage that you are trying to prevent
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-10-2013, 01:37 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
yes, i should have been wearing ear protection, my ears never rang afterwards or anything, but it's long term damage that you are trying to prevent
you were supposed to say "huh? what was that? speak up!"

lol

great thread .. love me some guns!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-10-2013, 02:09 PM
Neezar's Avatar
Neezar Neezar is offline
SupaDupaMod
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South
Posts: 6,479
Send a message via Yahoo to Neezar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I thought there was a lot there to make for some good discussion/debate. For instance, should we begin to give serious thought to allowing school staffers and teachers to be armed (some of them at least), after being thoroughly trained of course. Mike had mentioned an idea like this in another thread, and I saw red flags with the idea, but after reading Correia's blog, I got what Nathan and Mike were trying to say about "armed resistance" making these nut jobs think twice.

I hope people will take the time to read it.
I still don't like the idea of a teacher having a firearm. I would rather have an armed law enforcement officer. I think the teachers should be protecting/getting the kids to safety without worrying about readying a firearm and preparing for confrontation. Then the officer could solely concentrate on the offender knowing the staff are tending the kids. I wouldn't want a teacher to have two priorities to deal with.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:11 PM
Bonnie Bonnie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Where the bluebonnets bloom
Posts: 6,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
I still don't like the idea of a teacher having a firearm. I would rather have an armed law enforcement officer. I think the teachers should be protecting/getting the kids to safety without worrying about readying a firearm and preparing for confrontation. Then the officer could solely concentrate on the offender knowing the staff are tending the kids. I wouldn't want a teacher to have two priorities to deal with.
I would prefer that too. It's not that I like the idea, but, we might need to look at it as a realistic option. You know how they tell parents with babies and toddlers to go through their house, each room, and get low to the ground so they're seeing things from the baby's level, to better see all the possible dangers, that's the approach we need to start taking with our schools. If we're going to protect our children better, we need to look at our kids and schools like the bad guys do, as sitting targets in a death trap.
__________________

Last edited by Bonnie; 01-10-2013 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:15 PM
County Mike's Avatar
County Mike County Mike is offline
Hailey's Dad
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Millville, NJ
Posts: 859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
I still don't like the idea of a teacher having a firearm. I would rather have an armed law enforcement officer. I think the teachers should be protecting/getting the kids to safety without worrying about readying a firearm and preparing for confrontation. Then the officer could solely concentrate on the offender knowing the staff are tending the kids. I wouldn't want a teacher to have two priorities to deal with.
Imagine a scenario where a lunatic walks into a classroom and starts shooting. Then moves to the next classroom. If that teacher has access to a firearm he/she could act immediately when the lunatic comes in rather than waiting for the armed guard (or whoever) to arrive. If the guard is at the other end of the school, he might not even know what's happening until it's too late. Armed teachers might not prevent every murder, but I think they could at least reduce the number.

Of course, this would be for teachers who choose the option and are trained in the use and handling of a firearm. Best scenario, lunatic doesn't even enter school because he knows some of the staff are armed.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:04 PM
flo's Avatar
flo flo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 7,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
I still don't like the idea of a teacher having a firearm. I would rather have an armed law enforcement officer. I think the teachers should be protecting/getting the kids to safety without worrying about readying a firearm and preparing for confrontation. Then the officer could solely concentrate on the offender knowing the staff are tending the kids. I wouldn't want a teacher to have two priorities to deal with.
I was a little uneasy with it too but after reading the article I linked to, it did change my mind. Here is the pertinent segment:

Quote:
Armed Teachers

So now that there is a new tragedy the president wants to have a “national conversation on guns”. Here’s the thing. Until this national conversation is willing to entertain allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons, then it isn’t a conversation at all, it is a lecture.

Now when I say teachers carrying concealed weapons on Facebook I immediately get a bunch of emotional freak out responses. You can’t mandate teachers be armed! Guns in every classroom! Emotional response! Blood in the streets!

No. Hear me out. The single best way to respond to a mass shooter is with an immediate, violent response. The vast majority of the time, as soon as a mass shooter meets serious resistance, it bursts their fantasy world bubble. Then they kill themselves or surrender. This has happened over and over again.

Police are awesome. I love working with cops. However any honest cop will tell you that when seconds count they are only minutes away. After Colombine law enforcement changed their methods in dealing with active shooters. It used to be that you took up a perimeter and waited for overwhelming force before going in. Now usually as soon as you have two officers on scene you go in to confront the shooter (often one in rural areas or if help is going to take another minute, because there are a lot of very sound tactical reasons for using two, mostly because your success/survival rates jump dramatically when you put two guys through a door at once. The shooter’s brain takes a moment to decide between targets). The reason they go fast is because they know that every second counts. The longer the shooter has to operate, the more innocents die.

However, cops can’t be everywhere. There are at best only a couple hundred thousand on duty at any given time patrolling the entire country. Excellent response time is in the three-five minute range. We’ve seen what bad guys can do in three minutes, but sometimes it is far worse. They simply can’t teleport. So in some cases that means the bad guys can have ten, fifteen, even twenty minutes to do horrible things with nobody effectively fighting back.

So if we can’t have cops there, what can we do?

The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started.

The teachers are there already. The school staff is there already. Their reaction time is measured in seconds, not minutes. They can serve as your immediate violent response. Best case scenario, they engage and stop the attacker, or it bursts his fantasy bubble and he commits suicide. Worst case scenario, the armed staff provides a distraction, and while he’s concentrating on killing them, he’s not killing more children.

But teachers aren’t as trained as police officers! True, yet totally irrelevant. The teacher doesn’t need to be a SWAT cop or Navy SEAL. They need to be speed bumps.

But this leads to the inevitable shrieking and straw man arguments about guns in the classroom, and then the pacifistic minded who simply can’t comprehend themselves being mandated to carry a gun, or those that believe teachers are all too incompetent and can’t be trusted. Let me address both at one time.

Don’t make it mandatory. In my experience, the only people who are worth a darn with a gun are the ones who wish to take responsibility and carry a gun. Make it voluntary. It is rather simple. Just make it so that your state’s concealed weapons laws trump the Federal Gun Free School Zones act. All that means is that teachers who voluntarily decide to get a concealed weapons permit are capable of carrying their guns at work. Easy. Simple. Cheap. Available now.

Then they’ll say that this is impossible, and give me all sorts of terrible worst case scenarios about all of the horrors that will happen with a gun in the classroom… No problem, because this has happened before. In fact, my state laws allow for somebody with a concealed weapons permit to carry a gun in a school right now. Yes. Utah has armed teachers. We have for several years now.

When I was a CCW instructor, I decided that I wanted more teachers with skin in the game, so I started a program where I would teach anybody who worked at a school for free. No charge. Zip. They still had to pay the state for their background check and fingerprints, but all the instruction was free. I wanted more armed teachers in my state.

I personally taught several hundred teachers. I quickly discovered that pretty much every single school in my state had at least one competent, capable, smart, willing individual. Some schools had more. I had one high school where the principal, three teachers, and a janitor showed up for class. They had just had an event where there had been a threat against the school and their resource officer had turned up AWOL. This had been a wake up call for this principal that they were on their own, and he had taken it upon himself to talk to his teachers to find the willing and capable. Good for them.

After Virginia Tech, I started teaching college students for free as well. They were 21 year old adults who could pass a background check. Why should they have to be defenseless? None of these students ever needed to stop a mass shooting, but I’m happy to say that a couple of rapists and muggers weren’t so lucky, so I consider my time well spent.

Over the course of a couple years I taught well over $20,000 worth of free CCW classes. I met hundreds and hundreds of teachers, students, and staff. All of them were responsible adults who understood that they were stuck in target rich environments filled with defenseless innocents. Whether they liked it or not, they were the first line of defense. It was the least I could do.

Permit holders are not cops. The mistake many people make is that they think permit holders are supposed to be cops or junior danger rangers. Not at all. Their only responsibility is simple. If someone is threatening to cause them or a third person serious bodily harm, and that someone has the ability, opportunity, and is acting in a manner which suggest they are a legitimate threat, then that permit holder is allowed to use lethal force against them.

As of today the state legislatures of Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma are looking at revamping their existing laws so that there can be legal guns in school. For those that are worried these teachers will be unprepared, I’m sure there would be no lack of instructors in those states who’d be willing to teach them for free.

For everyone, if you are sincere in your wish to protect our children, I would suggest you call your state representative today and demand that they allow concealed carry in schools.
Makes a lot of sense, IMO.
__________________
http://www.matt-hughes.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=339&dateline=13068036  43

Rejoice ever more. 1 Thessalonians 5:16

Last edited by flo; 01-10-2013 at 10:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:23 PM
Play The Man's Avatar
Play The Man Play The Man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flo View Post
Loved your video, Adam. Was there a lot of recoil, does it hurt your shoulder? It still looks like a blast to shoot.

Thanks, PTM, for the link. We aren't members of the NRA and I hadn't even thought of it (even though we are gun owners and will NOT be disarmed).
You should join. The NRA has signed up 100,000 new members since Sandy Hook. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ook-86001.html Speak now or forever hold your peace . . . because the Obama administration is not going to let you hold your "piece".
__________________
"Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man! We shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out."
--Hugh Latimer, October 16, 1555
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:27 PM
Play The Man's Avatar
Play The Man Play The Man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
I still don't like the idea of a teacher having a firearm. I would rather have an armed law enforcement officer. I think the teachers should be protecting/getting the kids to safety without worrying about readying a firearm and preparing for confrontation. Then the officer could solely concentrate on the offender knowing the staff are tending the kids. I wouldn't want a teacher to have two priorities to deal with.
Reasonable. I think if it ever did happen it should be voluntary and perhaps 5-10% of teachers would take up the responsibility. It wouldn't be perfect but it might help. If they were concealed carry the shooter would not know who was armed. In his mind, all of them could be armed.
__________________
"Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man! We shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out."
--Hugh Latimer, October 16, 1555
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:34 PM
Play The Man's Avatar
Play The Man Play The Man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
In honor of senator feinstein I think we need a gun thread. Maybe if it is used enough it could get stickied.

I'll start with one of me shooting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q-x2...ature=youtu.be
I suggest that you delete the video and hide your weapons because an Iowa legislator is proposing confiscation of semi-automatic rifles. http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/09/io...matic-weapons/
__________________
"Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man! We shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out."
--Hugh Latimer, October 16, 1555
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-11-2013, 12:31 AM
Neezar's Avatar
Neezar Neezar is offline
SupaDupaMod
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South
Posts: 6,479
Send a message via Yahoo to Neezar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
I would prefer that too. It's not that I like the idea, but, we might need to look at it as a realistic option. You know how they tell parents with babies and toddlers to go through their house, each room, and get low to the ground so they're seeing things from the baby's level, to better see all the possible dangers, that's the approach we need to start taking with our schools. If we're going to protect our children better, we need to look at our kids and schools like the bad guys do, as sitting targets in a death trap.
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by County Mike View Post
Imagine a scenario where a lunatic walks into a classroom and starts shooting. Then moves to the next classroom. If that teacher has access to a firearm he/she could act immediately when the lunatic comes in rather than waiting for the armed guard (or whoever) to arrive. If the guard is at the other end of the school, he might not even know what's happening until it's too late. Armed teachers might not prevent every murder, but I think they could at least reduce the number.

Of course, this would be for teachers who choose the option and are trained in the use and handling of a firearm. Best scenario, lunatic doesn't even enter school because he knows some of the staff are armed.
Very good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flo View Post
I was a little uneasy with it too but after reading the article I linked to, it did change my mind. Here is the pertinent segment:

Makes a lot of sense, IMO.
I read it, too. I could be swayed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Play The Man View Post
Reasonable. I think if it ever did happen it should be voluntary and perhaps 5-10% of teachers would take up the responsibility. It wouldn't be perfect but it might help. If they were concealed carry the shooter would not know who was armed. In his mind, all of them could be armed.
Okay. I changed my mind.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.