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  #81  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:34 PM
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I didn't grow up in a country with the right to bear arms, so I won't pretend to understand pro vs. anti gun stances...they don't exist in my world.

I can say going by the statistical point of view, the genie's been out of the bottle way too long to think gun control can have a significant impact at this point. 300 Million privately owned and registered guns (with how many others unknown?) means they can be easily had by anyone who really wants to have one, regardless of how draconian new gun laws may be.

Because of this, the U.S. is never going to become like say Japan, where strict gun control laws have been in effect since at least the early 1900's I believe, and handgun deaths for the entire country mostly number in the teens to twenties annually.

The best that can be done now is to try & mitigate school shooting tragedies like this from occurring, by smart planning and spending of money towards prevention. Many good ideas can be found in this article:

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...hool-massacres

Beyond this, it's apparent the society & culture need to have a paradigm shift in how it's own citizens are treated. Real solutions need to be implemented to problems within such as to do with the homeless, the poor, the ill (both mentally & physically), the elderly, veterans, out sourcing of jobs so shareholders make another buck a share, the increasing divide between the top two percentile and the rest of the country, etc, etc. Things are badly broken...this tragedy is just a brief, glaring example.
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  #82  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:40 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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well said wavetar ... well said!
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  #83  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:56 PM
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I'm going to share this with you guys, even though I usually stay quiet and out of these things....

My daughter comes home the day after the shooting. And I can boost that she is in the same grade, at the same smalltown Junior High that Matt's son goes to. They had talked about it in homeroom and the majority of class came to the same solution. Media possibly flips the switch in these animals, is something they came up with.

She told me she stood up in class and said -- "If they wouldn't glorify what happens after these shootings on TV, then these freaks wouldn't keep doing it". Then the teacher took the discussion further. It ended up with them talking about how ANY kid that is bullied, picked on, different, left out, etc. can see this on TV and think to himself.... "How can I make them remember or notice me???". And these are 13-year old kids that are drawing a conclusion like this.

I understand media folk have their jobs to do. And you can trace things like this back to all the horrible events like this in the past... But this constant - In your face, In your face, In your face system of media coverage... Is it the weapon that builds the rage inside, I'll use my daughters term "freaks"? I have another name for them, it might start with the same letter, but I'll keep from getting an infraction by not typing it .

Curious as to what you think about it?
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  #84  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EHLERZ5 View Post
I'm going to share this with you guys, even though I usually stay quiet and out of these things....

My daughter comes home the day after the shooting. And I can boost that she is in the same grade, at the same smalltown Junior High that Matt's son goes to. They had talked about it in homeroom and the majority of class came to the same solution. Media possibly flips the switch in these animals, is something they came up with.

She told me she stood up in class and said -- "If they wouldn't glorify what happens after these shootings on TV, then these freaks wouldn't keep doing it". Then the teacher took the discussion further. It ended up with them talking about how ANY kid that is bullied, picked on, different, left out, etc. can see this on TV and think to himself.... "How can I make them remember or notice me???". And these are 13-year old kids that are drawing a conclusion like this.

I understand media folk have their jobs to do. And you can trace things like this back to all the horrible events like this in the past... But this constant - In your face, In your face, In your face system of media coverage... Is it the weapon that builds the rage inside, I'll use my daughters term "freaks"? I have another name for them, it might start with the same letter, but I'll keep from getting an infraction by not typing it .

Curious as to what you think about it?
Right on the money, friend. Your daughter is intuitive for her age.
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  #85  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:20 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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ehler, your daughter is absolutely right ... we know the lanzsa's klebolds, dahmers, koresh's ... but none of the victims .. sadly, violence sells ... and weak minded people see this and think they can go out with all the attention these people get ... its a cycle ... but as flo pointed out ... you got a smart one there ... awesome!
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  #86  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavetar View Post
The best that can be done now is to try & mitigate school shooting tragedies like this from occurring, by smart planning and spending of money towards prevention. Many good ideas can be found in this article:

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...hool-massacres

Beyond this, it's apparent the society & culture need to have a paradigm shift in how it's own citizens are treated. Real solutions need to be implemented to problems within such as to do with the homeless, the poor, the ill (both mentally & physically), the elderly, veterans, out sourcing of jobs so shareholders make another buck a share, the increasing divide between the top two percentile and the rest of the country, etc, etc. Things are badly broken...this tragedy is just a brief, glaring example.
Good article and I agree with the former paragraph. You know I respect your opinion, wav, but to the latter - I disagree that it's because of economic inequality. I think it's a cultural problem, none of the shooters were poor, elderly, etc., although yes, they were definitely mentally ill and I agree with you there that our society may need to look for better solutions to help the mentally ill, or at least prevent them from harming others (like the man who was pushed in front of the subway train last week by a mentally disturbed man).

I'm a capitalist and don't think that income redistribution is the answer to anything. The "top two" in earning percentile are already supporting the rest of the population with entitlements, etc. Sadly, the ethic here has changed from "what can I do for my country (city, neighborhood, family)" to "what can they do for me?".
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  #87  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:20 PM
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Tragic occurance

I think people need to separate in their minds two things...the most important thing here is that there is a difference between the right to own a firearm....and the right to own a sub machine gun...in all these events, it doesnt appear that its normal guns or hunting guns...its military grade weapons that allways appear to be used.

Now...where do you draw the line on what constitutes the basis of allowance for arms?

You know...pea shooters...rifles...sub machine guns....grenade launchers....tanks....missile silo...? there is a BIG difference...I do think that its not the ammount of guns out there which is your problem...its the type.

You might claim you need the right for protection and deffence...well you can do that with a peashooter you dont NEED a military weapon...so why bother having one...thats what I would challenge...just like I dont think you should build your own missile silo...well...frankly...noone should be running around with submachine guns...you just dont need to do that....if you WANT to do that, you have to ask yourself why...coz I do wonder if with some people its almost a status symbol...

Would the guy have been able to do the same damage as quickly, or to the extent, if he only had a revolver?

When your messing around with "clips" I'm sorry, its gone WAY TO FAR..."Clips" arent for Hunting, and they arent for defence...they are purely for attack...having them coz they are fun, because they are symbols of masculinity as I believe they may be advertized in your country...THATS part of the problem.

I dont think you have an issue with regulation, Thats seems fine, as does the hunting restrictions...what is an issue is that you can access weapons that have no real function other then military use.

I would say, keep hand guns and rifles...and ban everything more powerful then that...but I doubt any changes will happen like that...its too late...people already own them
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  #88  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:21 PM
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the second thing...is that the right to bear arms isnt an original in the constitution anyway...its an ammendment...cant help but ask...if a document is perfect in its original form why ever change it? and if you can change it once...well...where do you stop changing it???
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  #89  
Old 12-19-2012, 01:22 AM
adamt adamt is offline
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google 'bath massacre'

1927 school 37 dead no guns
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  #90  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:02 AM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamt View Post
google 'bath massacre'

1927 school 37 dead no guns
I don't know if u are serious or joking when providing an event that happened almost a century ago .... No one is saying knives, or planes or explosives can't kill people ... They are just saying guns are much more efficient ... And semi-automatic and assault weapons are even more efficient than regular guns ... And if these guns are readily available ... By legal or illegal means ... Things like this are going to happen ...
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