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  #31  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
i am sure it is pretty bad ... but i guess i can't claim to be Christian if i don't see being gay as a sin ...
If you don't believe in the authority of Scripture, then no, you can't claim to be a Christian. Well, technically, you could claim to be a Christian, but you would just be a liar.

As for me, personally, I couldn't care less if two guys I've never met want to sleep together. If a same-sex couple in California wants to get married, that will never affect me. But this is NOT about my personal opinions or what I am able to tolerate. It's about GOD's standards, not humankind's standards.

Human society is built completely by sinful, corrupted minds. GOD's standards are perfect. So is it any surprise that our society would so often tell people to do exactly the opposite of what GOD wants us to do?

What worries me the most here is that I fear young men are going to be told that they are gay, just because they don't fit into our society's accepted stereotypes of masculinity, and their parents and/or churches will have their hands legally tied if they want to tell those kids differently.
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  #32  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:58 PM
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Liberty Counsel is filing suit against the new law in order to have it blocked:

http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14102&AlertID=1467

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October 1, 2012

Liberty Counsel to File Suit Against California’s Ban on Change Therapy

www.LC.org

In anticipation that California Governor Jerry Brown would sign the new law banning change therapy, Liberty Counsel has been preparing a lawsuit on behalf of counselors, parents and their minor children, and the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH).

In signing the bill, Gov. Brown said that change therapy “will now be relegated to the dustbin of quackery.”

The California governor and legislature are putting their own preconceived notions and political ideology ahead of children and their rights to get access to counseling that meets their needs. A number of minors who have struggled with same-sex attraction have been able to reduce or eliminate the stress and conflicts in their lives by receiving counseling of their choice which best meets their needs and religious convictions. This bill will harm children, stress families, and place counselors in a catch-22, because they will be forced to violate their licensing ethical codes.

This law undermines parental rights. Mental health decisions should be left to the patient, the parents, and the counselors – not to the government to license one viewpoint.

Read our News Release for more details.
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  #33  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:27 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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If you don't believe in the authority of Scripture, then no, you can't claim to be a Christian. Well, technically, you could claim to be a Christian, but you would just be a liar.

As for me, personally, I couldn't care less if two guys I've never met want to sleep together. If a same-sex couple in California wants to get married, that will never affect me. But this is NOT about my personal opinions or what I am able to tolerate. It's about GOD's standards, not humankind's standards.

Human society is built completely by sinful, corrupted minds. GOD's standards are perfect. So is it any surprise that our society would so often tell people to do exactly the opposite of what GOD wants us to do?

What worries me the most here is that I fear young men are going to be told that they are gay, just because they don't fit into our society's accepted stereotypes of masculinity, and their parents and/or churches will have their hands legally tied if they want to tell those kids differently.

so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it? besides saying it is wrong, writing on a forum that the gov't is leading the country to hell?? ?not saying you personally, but how many Christians have done something? write their gov't, hold a rally?, create a petitiion?? is it enough to just say it is wrong and not try and change the problem?
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  #34  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it? besides saying it is wrong, writing on a forum that the gov't is leading the country to hell?? ?not saying you personally, but how many Christians have done something? write their gov't, hold a rally?, create a petitiion?? is it enough to just say it is wrong and not try and change the problem?
You have got to be kidding me. Where have you been for the last, oh, hundred years or so?

Wait, you actually were kidding, right?
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  #35  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:00 PM
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You have got to be kidding me. Where have you been for the last, oh, hundred years or so?

Wait, you actually were kidding, right?
Um, in Canada?


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  #36  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:12 PM
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Um, in Canada?





http://www.focusonthefamily.com/soci...tizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.
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  #37  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PRShrek View Post



http://www.focusonthefamily.com/soci...tizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.
Good read there. However, it doesn't answer rnc's question. "so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it (this subject)?"

The Gay rights movement is moving in leaps and bounds in changing laws to protect/establish their rights. And it's happening today.

Should christians be campaigning/fighting against this? What do you think?
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  #38  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:47 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRShrek View Post



http://www.focusonthefamily.com/soci...tizenship.aspx

What ended the Roman Empire's vicious — and wildly popular — blood sport, the gladiatorial games? In large part, Christians did. More precisely, one single Christian.

The spectacles came to an end at the turn of the fifth century, when an eastern monk named Telemachus journeyed to the mighty city of Rome. He was determined to put a stop to the madness, armed only with faith in God and the belief that human beings made in His image should not tear each other to pieces like wild animals. Entering the Coliseum one day as a spectator, he bided his time in the stands until the fighting had raised the crowd to a frenzy. Then he leaped into the arena and separated the combatants. He was cut to pieces, but he won the day. The spectacles ceased when the emperor Honorius abolished them, moved by what had happened in the arena that day.

In Roman society, fathers wielded tyrannical power and women had the status of virtual household slaves. Children could be abused, sold or murdered: Unwanted infants (usually girls) were commonly “exposed” — abandoned in the streets, to be used in pagan sacrifices, raised as beggars or sold into slavery.

Christians campaigned relentlessly against these horrors and — after decades, and in some cases centuries, of pressure — got results. For the first time, rape became a crime with severe penalties. Women gained unprecedented property rights and divorce laws were tightened to protect them against serial divorce. Abandoned children sold as slaves were freed.

In these and many other ways — the treatment of slaves, the poor, the sick, the vulnerable, the imprisoned — Christians radically reformed the ancient world. They did it without anything close to the freedoms we enjoy, and sometimes at great personal risk.

One especially inspiring example of Christianity at work in the culture is 19th century English Member of Parliament William Wilberforce. Wilberforce worked tirelessly for 20 years to persuade his fellow lawmakers to outlaw Britain's slave trade. He fought this good fight while in poor health and often standing alone in the legislature.

Finally, the British Parliament passed the Abolition of Slavery Act on July 26, 1833 — three days before Wilberforce died.
mod .. please help .. Dave has hacked into pshrek's account and posting info ...
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  #39  
Old 10-03-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
mod .. please help .. Dave has hacked into pshrek's account and posting info ...
That’s funny, I actually did laugh out loud on that one!

The original article was even longer, that was just part one and I edited it to make it shorter. My point was, Christians have been ‘doing something about it’ for a very long time, and have been in the news quite a bit over the last decade or so. Unfortunately our efforts are often ignored or branded as hate speech by the powers and principalities, but a little truth gets through here and there.
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  #40  
Old 10-03-2012, 05:32 PM
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I wonder if he is avoiding the question? Or maybe he has me on his ignore list and can't see my posts.


Nate? Anyone? Anyone have an opinion on the question? I would love to hear it. Bueller?

"so as a Christian, what is one supposed to do about it (this subject)?"
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