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Old 07-03-2012, 07:21 PM
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VCURamFan VCURamFan is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyburn View Post
ANY Country that wants to create a Federal Europe AGAINST the wishes of half of Europe should be classed a potential enemy...ANY Country that thinks it can use, and has used, financial blackmail to over-ride the democrasy of Countries that are completely Soverign should be classed a potential enemy

Surely as an American you understand that?? Or do you approve of countries imposing their law over another country by (attempting to) removing democratically ellected Governments?

...other then North Vietnam...obviously.
I think that Germany should view a mass of country strong-arming it into paying for their foolish financial decisions as enemies. Britain's in the same boat: strong economies forced to cover Spain & Greece's idiocy. Y'all should be aligning with Germany.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:26 PM
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I think that Germany should view a mass of country strong-arming it into paying for their foolish financial decisions as enemies. Britain's in the same boat: strong economies forced to cover Spain & Greece's idiocy. Y'all should be aligning with Germany.
You have a point...but here is the thing...

Firstly the Euro wasnt thought through properly before being put in place. Why? because its value is being used by totally different economies trying to compete...now the Germanic Argument is that Political Union will create a SINGLE Economy with a SINGLE Currency...not a Single Currency expected to work for all economies, which dont work because they all loan and borrow from each other and they all try and better themselves at the others expense to be a better prospect for money borrowing.

Secondly...this isnt entirely Europes fault. The thing which highlighted the problem with the Euro Currency was something made entirely in America. When something shyte runs in a smooth environment its not that bad...but when the same shyte is expected to work in a harsh environment, the cracks become more evident.

Thirdly...What Germany should be doing is exactly what England is doing. Basically, if you go into the European Union, and there are problems then you can either abide by your duties to bail out the problem Governments...OR you basically refuse to help them point blank. If Germany took the same stance that England did when we basically vetoed a European policy on the first step to full on Federation...two things would happen...firstly...those who couldnt support themselves would have to leave the Union...and that would benefit the Union! Secondly, the Euro might crumble...

But the Euro will probably crumble anyway because this thing simply cant stop leaking. The reason noone wants to end this is NOT coz they are afraid of some kinda anarchy...far from it...they are frightened that if, say Greece left the Union, its status might improve, improve so well its better to be out of the Union...and before you know it...the whole Union would be collapsing because States will recognise its better to go it alone, then be in a kinda socialistic network.

Germany is frightened that if the union collapses, it will not have power, or the luxury level of power it has now with ease. They are also fighting for the Establishment...this isnt just about the currency...if the currency fails, or someone leaves and becomes better off...how long before the European Parliament faulters? They love to sit in big offices...make sweeping rules, and pay themselves bankers bonuses...do they want this crisis to end with their obliteration?

Finally...regardless of the issues...surely you dont think its okay to run roughshod over other first world country democrasies via financial blackmail? I mean We arent talking a socialist government, we arent talking a third world country...Germany changed the Italian Government...is that okay??

Where do you draw the line on interference with other states...lets look at the Arab Spring...does the US Press report anymore about Egypt? because they should....Egypt was run by President Hosni Mubarack, a Dictator, who whilst treating his citizens poorly didnt commit mass genocide, and was extremely liberal in his islamism, he was friends, and supported the Western powers...including America, including England...He has boarders with Israel who we all want to protect...so its important to have an allied force in Egypt.

Soooo...we hand over to a Military Government...fair enough...but what now that the results of the "democratic ellection" have told the world that the people of Egypt want a possible Islamic State! as...in Sharia and Iran type of State! The West stood by and let a reasonable prospect be wiped out for less reasons then many they ignore (like Syria for example) and praise Democrasy....and now the people have spoken, and its an ANTI-WESTERN result.

Huzzah! we've just made the land next to Israel one for The Muslim Brotherhood.

Should we REALLY be proud about that? and what are our options...shall we take out this newly ellected deomcrasy coz they didnt vote in someone better then the one we got rid of?

I havent heard Barack Obama speak about the Arab Spring now its hit Syria, I havent heard Barack Obama speak about the results of the Egyptian ellection...

I dont know...international politics is a nightmare at the best of times...and in the age of Empire, all was fair in love and war...but...we arent in the age of Empire anymore...our attitudes to that changed because of Germany...the United Nations, The European Union...all these things came about to stop this kind of Empire Building and unilateral interference...but institutions morph...and those the reamain become powerless to do their jobs
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