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  #41  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVEMAN1 View Post
Ok......but does not the Book of Common Prayer and the Catholic Missal contain some of the same prayers? And don't Anglo Catholic Churches use both? I know when I attended the Catholic Church of my in-laws, the Nicene Creed and Holy Eucharist were read out of a book and the translation sounded exactly like the Book Of Common Prayer. But to my knowledge their church is not Anglo Catholic........
I know the Anglican will be based on the Catholic, for obvious reasons. So for example the Romans have what is called The Daily Office, a set of a number of services supposed to be conducted at different points in the 24 hour cycle. One is Vespers, to be said at dusk...and Evensong, in the Anglican Tradition will be based on Vespers.

I have never heard of an Anglo-Catholic church using the Roman Missal...but I DO know that they will use the occasional roman prayer. Saint Wilfrids will still do the Angelus, and Regina Coeli at the ends of their services But its that way round, High Church Anglicanism may steal from Rome, but Rome would NEVER steal from Anglicanism, because Rome considers itself the original, and that the book of common prayer is a sour grapes re-writting of Romanism, by people who wanted the services, style, and litrugical basis of Romes Pre-prepared services, but couldnt give a Toss about the Roman Curia
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  #42  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:37 PM
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Plus 951 Our Fathers followed by a pilgrimage to Lourdes.
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2012, 04:45 PM
Conrad Conrad is offline
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Originally Posted by MattHughesRocks View Post
It's a "him" and I've sent him a bible ( he's in prison) so we write about God sometimes and chat about Him when I visit. I guess it's hard to believe in something so good when your down like that but at least he's asking
I think purgatory came up to hm as a hope because of an unsaved brother he lost years ago. He's hoping he'll meet him there one day. He doesn't think he's good enough to ever get into heaven and says " I just don't know about this Jesus stuff".
When I share the Gospel with someone and that question of "what about my already passed loved one" comes up, it is tough. I don't envy your position at this time in that conversation.

While that can be a legitimate, heart-felt concern for the loved one, some people use it as a smokescreen to avoid dealing with their own sin, as a change of subject:
(Offended) "Are you telling me that my brother is in hell?"
"I didn't know your brother, but I'm asking you to look at yourself in light of what the bible says."
Other times, it really is a painful realization. I hope you're dealing with the genuine kind.

Other times, any random subject (purgatory, communion, do I have to wear a tie to church) will do to avoid the question of sin and repentance, regardless of dead loved ones. Some people are just intellectually hungry and easily get off topic. Keep praying for the guy. It makes a difference.

--------------------

Ok, I finished the thread. On the original question of purgatory, there's some other academic stuff about it's origin, but it's been sufficiently said that it's unbiblical.
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Last edited by Conrad; 05-15-2012 at 04:56 PM.
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2012, 05:22 AM
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I've known him almost our whole lives and I know his asking is genuine.
I told him that we don't know what was in his brother's heart the second before death and God could have easily reveled himself to his brother right then and there and he very well be in heaven right now.
My friend went to court the other day and was sentenced to 10 years so I don't know...I think it's going to be some time of shock to get over before we go back to talking about God
I'll be seeing him Sunday.
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Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
When I share the Gospel with someone and that question of "what about my already passed loved one" comes up, it is tough. I don't envy your position at this time in that conversation.

While that can be a legitimate, heart-felt concern for the loved one, some people use it as a smokescreen to avoid dealing with their own sin, as a change of subject:
(Offended) "Are you telling me that my brother is in hell?"
"I didn't know your brother, but I'm asking you to look at yourself in light of what the bible says."
Other times, it really is a painful realization. I hope you're dealing with the genuine kind.

Other times, any random subject (purgatory, communion, do I have to wear a tie to church) will do to avoid the question of sin and repentance, regardless of dead loved ones. Some people are just intellectually hungry and easily get off topic. Keep praying for the guy. It makes a difference.

--------------------

Ok, I finished the thread. On the original question of purgatory, there's some other academic stuff about it's origin, but it's been sufficiently said that it's unbiblical.
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  #45  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:07 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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Originally Posted by MattHughesRocks View Post
I've known him almost our whole lives and I know his asking is genuine.
I told him that we don't know what was in his brother's heart the second before death and God could have easily reveled himself to his brother right then and there and he very well be in heaven right now.
My friend went to court the other day and was sentenced to 10 years so I don't know...I think it's going to be some time of shock to get over before we go back to talking about God
I'll be seeing him Sunday.
i hope you end up being a good influence on your friend (sounds like you already have) .. you are a good friend .. most people wouldn't be doing what you are doing ...
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  #46  
Old 05-17-2012, 03:35 PM
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i hope you end up being a good influence on your friend (sounds like you already have) .. you are a good friend .. most people wouldn't be doing what you are doing ...
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:55 PM
Conrad Conrad is offline
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Yeah, it's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it
Yeah, it's not fun.

In a good friend's sermons, he explains this. While God forgives sin, he doesn't necessarily remove the consequences of sin. He's not obliged to remove the consequences.

Then there's also the difference between punishment (what Jesus took for us) and discipline (what God still allows for the shaping of the beliver's character, different from the unbeliever's experience). Just keep those tucked away. You may or may not find them coming up.

Whatever form that idea takes for encouraging your friend, I hope these concepts are useful in your arsenal. When the right time comes & you're able to talk with him more, pray that you'll be given the words that he needs to hear.

(These two ideas where really useful to share with my dad recently.)
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