Where does "Purgatory" come from and why don't Christians believe in it?

[CAVEMAN1]

Originally Posted by Bonnie

I was going to ask Caveman to explain the comments from his post (bolded), what makes them "heretic" and why he says they have abandoned the Bible(?), but I see you've already hit on this, Dave.

Interesting discussion...

Dave......most Catholic Churches here in America that I have visited in the past do use the book of common prayer.

As far as heretical teachings of the Catholic faith goes:

1) Purgatory
2) Baptism(sprinkling, instead of immersion)
3) Idol Worship(tons of examples)
4) Prayer to Mary(She is not the mediator between GOD and man!)
5) Priestly Intercession(Priests CANNOT forgive sin!)
6) Priestly Indulgences(Catholic Church teaches that remission of sin can be had by purchasing indulgences or paying penance.

[CAVEMAN1]

I have to ask the question, if Catholics have not abandoned the Bible, then why is there so many heretical teachings in the Church?


http://www.biblestudyguide.org/ebook...g-examined.PDF

[Bella79]

Originally Posted by Tyburn

Sorry...the Roman Catholics dont use the BCP at all...Book of Common Prayer is ANGLICAN.

And the book of Common Prayer is a set of service plans, that actually use the Bible...except in the collects, which are just simple prayers that you or I might construct.

So for example the BCP will have a format for Evensong, including the order of the liturgy...but those liturgical statements are all direct quotes from the Bible...The Magnificat, is a Quote from Scripture, its not a fabricated suposition of what Mary said when the Angel told her of the Virgin Birth, its direct from the Scriptures. It will also have The Nunc Dimittis...which again is a direct biblical Quote.

The only collects that are repeated (or generally over-used) are The Collect against all perils, and they are so non-offensive as to be completely bland...there are prayers for the Royal Family...and why not! There are prayers for to be used in a funeral service...but please, do point out to me what in the below you think is offensive or heretic

O GOD, from whom all holy desires, all good counsil, and all just works do proceed, give unto thy servent the peace which the world can not give, that both our hearts my be set to obay thy commandments, and also that by thee, we, being defended from the fears of our enemies, may pass our time in rest and quietness, through the merits of Jesus Christ our Saviour

Lighten our darkness we beseech thee O Lord, and by thy great mercy, defend us from or perils and dangers of this night, for the love of thine only son, our saviour, Jesus Christ.

Please...do point out the heresy...

The book of common prayer is simply extracts of the Bible made into service plans, mixed with a few simple and non offensive prayers. I do wish that you would do your research before you speak, because when someone can SO EASILY point you out as wrong, it makes people wonder if anything you say is true. The BCP was a reaction AGAINST the Roman Catholics during the reformation...to be so increadibly wrong and to mis use such a document, is just careless...type it into Google and read the bloody book for yourself!!! Try NOT to make rookie errors when the rest of your points are so extremely valid!!!

I agree Tyburn. Born and raised into the Catholic religion a lot of things I am reading on this thread are far from the truth..Funny actually.
I am going to exit this topic before I am sucked into the vortex.

[County Mike]

Everything I know about the Catholic church I learned from the book "Sleepers".

[Play The Man]

Originally Posted by CAVEMAN1

Dave......most Catholic Churches here in America that I have visited in the past do use the book of common prayer.

As far as heretical teachings of the Catholic faith goes:

1) Purgatory
2) Baptism(sprinkling, instead of immersion)
3) Idol Worship(tons of examples)
4) Prayer to Mary(She is not the mediator between GOD and man!)
5) Priestly Intercession(Priests CANNOT forgive sin!)
6) Priestly Indulgences(Catholic Church teaches that remission of sin can be had by purchasing indulgences or paying penance.

Caveman, I think you are making an honest mistake. While those churches might have been using a book of prayers, there is a specific book with the title: The Book of Common Prayer. It is used in the Anglican Church, not the Roman Catholic Church. The book was written by Thomas Cranmer. He was a reformer in England. He recanted many of his reformed teachings under threat of execution by "Bloody Mary"; however, in a sermon shortly before his death, he repented of his recantation. As a show of remorse for his signing a document of recantation, while he was being burned to death, he stuck his writing hand in the flames and burned it off before the rest of his body was consumed by fire.

You should read the book. It is beautifully written. I'm going from memory, but I heard once that 80% of the book is quoted Scripture. The Anglican Church is a sick and weak Church; however, it is not because of The Book of Common Prayer - it is because many of the members don't read it and believe it.

[CAVEMAN1]

Originally Posted by Play The Man

Caveman, I think you are making an honest mistake. While those churches might have been using a book of prayers, there is a specific book with the title: The Book of Common Prayer. It is used in the Anglican Church, not the Roman Catholic Church. The book was written by Thomas Cranmer. He was a reformer in England. He recanted many of his reformed teachings under threat of execution by "Bloody Mary"; however, in a sermon shortly before his death, he repented of his recantation. As a show of remorse for his signing a document of recantation, while he was being burned to death, he stuck his writing hand in the flames and burned it off before the rest of his body was consumed by fire.

You should read the book. It is beautifully written. I'm going from memory, but I heard once that 80% of the book is quoted Scripture. The Anglican Church is a sick and weak Church; however, it is not because of The Book of Common Prayer - it is because many of the members don't read it and believe it.

You could be right.........it could be a mistake, PTM. I actually came out of an Episcopal Church that used the Book of Common Prayer, so I'm somewhat familiar with it. My wife was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools her entire life. Her parents and siblings still attend. We attended a service a couple of years ago, where her mom and dad renewed their wedding vows. I do remember a book of prayer being used throughout the service. A lot of the sacraments from that book were all in the Book Of Common Prayer. I believe the title of the book said "book of prayer', so I took it as the same book the Episcopal Church used. The Holy Eucharist and the Nicene Creed sure sounded the same.

And just for clarification, I was not blaming the heretical teachings of the Catholic Church on the Book Of Common Prayer, just the absence of the Bible. I believe any church has made a grave mistake when they replace the authoritative Word of God, the Bible, with a book written by man. Psalm 138: 2, David writes that God has magnified His Word above His Name. I believe we should do the same.

[CAVEMAN1]

Might be for a different thread.......but,there are some shady spots in the Book of Common Prayer.......like Baptism saves.............

Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but it is also a sign of Regeneration or new Birth, whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church: the promises of forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost, are visibly signed and sealed; Faith is confirmed, and Grace increased by virtue of prayer unto God. The Baptism of young Children is in any wise to be retained in the Church, as most agreeable with the institution of Christ." (The 39 Articles of Religion of the Anglican Church of Canada from The Book of Common Prayer, 1959, pg. 698-714).

[CAVEMAN1]

Originally Posted by Bella79

I agree Tyburn. Born and raised into the Catholic religion a lot of things I am reading on this thread are far from the truth..Funny actually.
I am going to exit this topic before I am sucked into the vortex.

So your saying none of this is true?

As far as heretical teachings of the Catholic faith goes:

1) Purgatory
2) Baptism(sprinkling, instead of immersion)
3) Idol Worship(tons of examples)
4) Prayer to Mary(She is not the mediator between GOD and man!)
5) Priestly Intercession(Priests CANNOT forgive sin!)
6) Priestly Indulgences(Catholic Church teaches that remission of sin can be had by purchasing indulgences or paying penance

[Max]

Originally Posted by CAVEMAN1

You could be right.........it could be a mistake, PTM. I actually came out of an Episcopal Church that used the Book of Common Prayer, so I'm somewhat familiar with it. My wife was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools her entire life. Her parents and siblings still attend. We attended a service a couple of years ago, where her mom and dad renewed their wedding vows. I do remember a book of prayer being used throughout the service. A lot of the sacraments from that book were all in the Book Of Common Prayer. I believe the title of the book said "book of prayer', so I took it as the same book the Episcopal Church used. The Holy Eucharist and the Nicene Creed sure sounded the same.

And just for clarification, I was not blaming the heretical teachings of the Catholic Church on the Book Of Common Prayer, just the absence of the Bible. I believe any church has made a grave mistake when they replace the authoritative Word of God, the Bible, with a book written by man. Psalm 138: 2, David writes that God has magnified His Word above His Name. I believe we should do the same.

i have no idea what mass you have been to where the bible is not used at all. every sunday when i go to mass there is a reading from the old testament, new testament and gospel.

[flo]

Originally Posted by Bella79

I agree Tyburn. Born and raised into the Catholic religion a lot of things I am reading on this thread are far from the truth..Funny actually.
I am going to exit this topic before I am sucked into the vortex.

Exactly. Same here.