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Old 03-15-2012, 12:10 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIHXsB9eSJo

but not attended by the President

Hillary might be at ease with the British...but most of the British dont even remember the war of 1812 LMAO
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:44 AM
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David Cameron handled himself very well. It a tad unusual for the American administration to be putting such an emphaisis on England though.

Usually it can come across to Britions as a tiny bit patronizing because its usually quite self-reassuring, thank you for what you have done for us...Not thank you for what you have done, irrespective of ourselves. There also isnt usually quite so much depth on what this "special relationiship" actually entails, again from the British point of view its been seen as very much the americans lead and our Government acting like a State Government within the Union...now I have to say that whilst Tony Blair and George Bush were in power this was seen as an increadibly negative thing by the British Populas...and it was obvious that the person who was going to succeed Brown (who by default took Blairs place) was going to do so by DISTANCING themselves from what appeared to many British people as, at its height, an american occupation in terms of foreign policy.

So if David Cameron looks tense its because he's thinking "what are the british going to think when they see this" However, I have to say it was very strange to hear Hillary talk as though the United States were at all DEPENDANT upon Britain for support. As far as Europe and the United Nations are concerned, most Brits would aggree...but to ever hear a senior American hint at that is, pecculiar, its frankly, more genuine and honnest in a non self centred way then certainly any American politician has been this century.

Cameron also has to be thinking that he's made his mark this year by turning around to Europe and saying that enough was enough. He took on the continent and he made a huge political risk. The European thing could have gone very badly indeed, but it didnt, and it didnt because he said quite honnestly that he would not put up with European Foreign Policy squashing on his own Soverignty.

The American Administration have got to know that one of the biggest things in discussion with the Prime Minister will not be positive. I suspect that David Cameron has told them that he no longer wishes to be tied by the treaty which regards Extradition. In England it is the last real bone of contention lingering from the era above.

At the height of New Labours heyday, Tony Blair signed a one sided agreement with the Bush Administration which means that the Americans can choose to extradite anyone they see fit, even if they are not American Citizens very looosely on the grounds of terrorism...however, America need not respond in kind to any writ of the type made by Britain...this has infuriated England because often the Americans are demanding people for trial who so obviously are not terrorists. They seem to make no distinction between airline bombers...and a mentally handicapped person who hacks into computers looking for aliens.

The other thing that have got to know is that the British Government got into SERIOUS trouble for its participation in torture towards terrorist suspects. Personally, I have absolutely no quarms with torture being used if it will save mass lives...BUT the vast majority of Brits are against it, and some of the people released from Guantanamo, or other places are now taking the Government to court and receiving vast pay outs...and the Prime Minister cant be seen to do anything but condemn the use of torture, and so, ironically has to support the payment to people abused by British/American forces. That does not sit well from the British point of view.

So thats why David Cameron looks like a stick of rock with an irremovable smile on his face. BUT however bad it might be for him, its also evident that the American Administration (minus the President who probably cant be seen to say it) actually do understand more then I thought would be possible the differences within our culture...and the pair Clinton and Biden, really did appear to make an effort. I hope that some of the other Brits that watch it, notice the differences between a usual American reception, and what was displayed today.

It hasnt gone unnoticed by me...and although its rather strange hearing it from the American Administration...and I kinda hope they dont do it too often because its not explicitly in line with their culture, and I do like my Americans to be American, however frustrating that can sometimes be, despite all that it actually means quite a lot and cant have been that easy for them.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:02 AM
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The first thing Cameron says when he comes to speak is that England basically doesnt even remember the 1812 war at all and he hits the nail on the head which a lot of Americans dont realize, both the US war of Independance and the 1812 really involve the french as much as the Americans.

One of the reasons that King George (apart from the fact he was clinically insane) treated the Collonies so bad was because they refused to cease trade with France in the south pacific. Now England was at war with France...so from the British perspective, it was unthinkable for part of the empire to basically be in league with the enemy!

We didnt really need to know that Samantha and David looked at the guest list in bed

Paying tribute to the Queen might also have been going a little too far. Its a bit mean to get Americans to lift their Glasses to the Monarchy that they expelled.

Cameron wasnt quite as sensative to the American culture, as the Americans prooved to the British. oh well....we cant have everything can we

The British are NOT behind the Government on the spending of aid...no matter how much the prime minister wants to believe it
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:27 PM
rearnakedchoke rearnakedchoke is offline
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the problem with the war of 1812 is that each side only seems to remember the part of the war that they won ... so each side takes it as a victory .. LOL
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
the problem with the war of 1812 is that each side only seems to remember the part of the war that they won ... so each side takes it as a victory .. LOL
I forgot to say that the 1812 war is more like the damp squip climax of the endless wars between France and England...

It involved the Americans in two ways, firstly, because America was hell bent on trying to invade parts of Canada which were still under British rule, and secondly because England had no quarms about quashing Americans at sea to get to France.

England has never declaired war on America...the lifting of arms in this case was once again done from the American front....We had no problems in defending Canada, and I think the Empire was pissed off that frankly the Americans just wouldnt stop trading, and being friendly with the French. You can tell this because England started playing tit for tat...if you support the French against England, we will effectively arm the native Indians against you Seems a bit childish, but thats really what our nations were both up to 200 years ago.

How we managed to fight America, when we were also fighting Spain and France...and about anyone else who had an Atlantic coastline at the time is testament to the armed forces, particularly the Navy of that time. Remember, in terms of sea goers, America was absolutely nill until the 1900s...in the 1800s the Spanish, British and French, all in far to close proximity had armadas more vast then anything on earth prior...and anything to date infact...before there wasnt the technology, now the technology means one aircraft carrier is all that might be needed...but back in those days you had to have an entire fleet of ships...and they were wooden vessils powered by the wind. The closest approximation to that in regards to America would be the turbine metalic ships that she owned around the time of the depression, the same fleet that was anchored in polynesia which the Japanese attacked.

So whilst we were fighting the Americans, defending the canadians, and supporting the native indians...we were also fighting the French, STILL...bear in mind we had been fighting the French for CENTURIES

The turning point came when France made THE SAME mistake as the Nazi Germans would make. They decided that they could invade and conqure Russia, and they had a go...in 1812...THE SAME YEAR! Unfortunately it all went horribly wrong for the French, and the worse it became for the French, the less England seemed to care about whatever was going on in North America...until finally the French began to collapse...

then guess who appeared out of the blue to finish them off

Fresh from Canada, the British came and distroyed them all at Waterloo. I hasten to add all the french hating countries, including Russia were also on hand to help put the french back in their box

To this day if you travel by Euro-Star train under the channel tunnel, your first port of call in England is....WATERLOO TRAIN STATION

From the British point of view...its more apt to celebrate the victory against france...then to celebrate any part victory against the United States. The Russians also celebrated...with a magnificent work of art

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0cpKzDoOdA
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