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  #21  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:33 PM
bradwright
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so Adamt you really believe i dont have a Cristian point of view...

nice judgement there.

as for my son he grew up believing in Santa Clause and now he is 21 years old and is in the process of buying his first home....so whats your point ?
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:35 PM
bradwright
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Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
Children are children.

I couldn't have pictured my childhood without the whole idea of Christmas and Santa Claus.

When I am a parent I'm going to celebrate Christmas with my children in that way but they will also be taught about Christ and his sacrifice.

In this world of horrors we live in I can't see removing another source of joy from it.

Does that make me a bad Christian... Maybe but so does everyday I continue to breath. A child's happiness is one of the most wonderful things in the world and playing the Santa Claus game always bring a smile to their faces.
this !
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:42 PM
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Neezar Neezar is offline
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Well now that we have gotten back on the topic instead of Nate's presentation skills......

When I first read this thread I experienced a variety of emotions. I certainly don't want my children to miss out on anything. However, I couldn't help but remembering a debate that I had with Dave over Halloween. I told him I thought that Christians were doing a good job of robbing the original intent of the holiday and replacing it with their own agenda. We spend every Halloween at church. And I wondered if that is exactly what is happening to the Christian's Christmas. Is modern society stealing Christmas and it's original meaning?

We went riding around looking at Christmas lights the other night and were singing Christmas carols. As we were singing Santa Claus is Coming To Town I realized that I was telling my kids to be good and they would be rewarded by Santa, not God. Kids write letters of their wishes to Santa. They try to be good for Santa. Is this not idol worship?

I will not stop buying my family gifts for Christmas. I will not stop celebrating Christmas. I will not stop trying to show them the magic and joy of love and family. But I definitely feel like I need to reconsider just how I go about accomplishing this with my family.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Well now that we have gotten back on the topic instead of Nate's presentation skills......

When I first read this thread I experienced a variety of emotions. I certainly don't want my children to miss out on anything. However, I couldn't help but remembering a debate that I had with Dave over Halloween. I told him I thought that Christians were doing a good job of robbing the original intent of the holiday and replacing it with their own agenda. We spend every Halloween at church. And I wondered if that is exactly what is happening to the Christian's Christmas. Is modern society stealing Christmas and it's original meaning?

We went riding around looking at Christmas lights the other night and were singing Christmas carols. As we were singing Santa Claus is Coming To Town I realized that I was telling my kids to be good and they would be rewarded by Santa, not God. Kids write letters of their wishes to Santa. They try to be good for Santa. Is this not idol worship?

I will not stop buying my family gifts for Christmas. I will not stop celebrating Christmas. I will not stop trying to show them the magic and joy of love and family. But I definitely feel like I need to reconsider just how I go about accomplishing this with my family.
in my opinion no it isn't...but thats just my opinion.
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  #25  
Old 12-12-2011, 12:28 AM
adamt adamt is offline
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Originally Posted by bradwright View Post
so Adamt you really believe i dont have a Cristian point of view...

nice judgement there.

as for my son he grew up believing in Santa Clause and now he is 21 years old and is in the process of buying his first home....so whats your point ?
you started with the asking about children, you can tell me what the point is.....
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Originally Posted by bradwright View Post
so tell me...what did you do with your children ?


and based on your logic, nate didn't have kids, so his opinion didn't count, it seems to me you don't have much room to talk, you only have one, I have four, so I guess, ---according to your logic and reasoning--- i am the most qualified to speak on this subject, unless someone with five wants to come on here and talk



and yes, i am not familiar with your testimony so i assume you don't have a christian worldview. please correct me if i am wrong and tell me you have accepted Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation
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  #26  
Old 12-12-2011, 12:52 AM
rearnakedchoke
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nothing wrong with having your kid thinking there is a santa claus, easter bunny, tooth fairy .. i think as long as your teaching your kids about the real reason for the holiday (besides the tooth fairy) ... its fine .. they will grow up to appreciate the money you spent on them, the surprises you planned for them ... and hopefully do the same for their kids ... i doubt there are grown up are mad at their parents for lying to them and leading them to believe there actually was never a santa .. LOL
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bradwright View Post
here i thought one of the duties of being a Cristian was to spread the word of God and try to help people come to God and be saved...
Yes, the primary mission of every Christian is to spread the Gospel of Christ. HOWEVER, if you compromise Truth in doing so, then you've defeated the whole purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisco View Post
A child's happiness is one of the most wonderful things in the world and playing the Santa Claus game always bring a smile to their faces.
It would most definitely be a sin, even more so from a Christian parent. You're compromising your witness in what's likely the most important mission field you will ever be involved in: parenting. You might think you are giving them a sense of joy by letting them believe in Santa, but it's a false joy. Why not give them the real joy that they would get from learning about Christ? Then you will see that the fake joy of Santa Claus quickly becomes meaningless.

GOD hates lying. He hates it. He hates it. He hates it. He hates it so much that He sends liars to Hell to be tortured for all eternity. So, if you willfully choose to lie to your children, then just realize that GOD hates that. You might be giving your children a temporary and meaningless happiness (that's soon followed by the humiliation of knowing that they've been played for a fool); but you are building up GOD's wrath against you.

I'm not saying you are going to lose your salvation for teaching your children about Santa Claus (because it's impossible to lose your salvation for any reason), but there will be a price to pay and you are not going to like it. So, you need to ask if your willful rebellion against GOD in this matter is going to be worth it in the grand scheme of all eternity.

When I was a kid, we were taught about the historical figure of St. Nicolaus. We were also taught about the fictional character of Santa Claus, but we were never allowed to believe that Santa Claus (the guy in the red suit who magically delivers presents to all the children in the world every Christmas) was real. Despite this, I have nothing but happy memories of Christmas from my childhood. For us, Christmas was about learning about Christ and spending time with the family. Presents were always secondary and fictional stories like Santa, Rudolph, Frosty the Snowman, etc. were okay for entertainment purposes in the days leading up to Christmas, but once December 25th rolled around, it was all about Jesus Christ and family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neezar View Post
Is this not idol worship?
Anything that takes attention away from GOD is idolatry. So, yes, focusing on Santa Claus at Christmastime, instead of Jesus Christ, would most definitely be idolatry.
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rearnakedchoke View Post
nothing wrong with having your kid thinking there is a santa claus, easter bunny, tooth fairy .. i think as long as your teaching your kids about the real reason for the holiday (besides the tooth fairy) ... its fine .. they will grow up to appreciate the money you spent on them, the surprises you planned for them ... and hopefully do the same for their kids ... i doubt there are grown up are mad at their parents for lying to them and leading them to believe there actually was never a santa .. LOL
It's not about the relationship between a parent and child being affected. It's about that child's relationship with GOD. If there is even a risk of negatively affecting that, then it's not worth it.

In Mark 9:42, Jesus says:
“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."

So, if you teach your children about Jesus Christ and Santa Claus on the same day every year, then eventually your children discover that you've been intentionally lying to them all along about Santa Claus, then how do you expect them to react to Jesus Christ? All you are doing is compromising your witness for Christ, which is more important than any temporary happiness they might get from believing in Santa Claus.

The primary purpose of parenting is not to provide a happy childhood, or a good education or produce productive members of society. Those are all good short term goals, but they are not the ultimate goal for which GOD initially designed parents. The purpose of parenting is to raise children who love GOD first and foremost. Everything else is secondary (even buying a house at the age of 21). So, with that in mind, how can any CHRISTIAN PARENT possibly defend the practice of lying to their kids about Santa Claus? Well, they can't, the practice is absolutely untenable from a Christian standpoint.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

Nothing in there saying that it's okay to tell a few little, "harmless" lies along the way.

Originally I asked those Christian parents, who allowed their children to believe in Santa, to present some Bible verses defending that decision... still waiting on those verses.
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  #29  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:47 AM
bradwright
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Originally Posted by adamt View Post
you started with the asking about children, you can tell me what the point is.....

i never asked you..i ask Neezer because she question what i believe so i ask her how she is raising her children to see where she stood...she didn't answer me though.


and based on your logic, nate didn't have kids, so his opinion didn't count, it seems to me you don't have much room to talk, you only have one, I have four, so I guess, ---according to your logic and reasoning--- i am the most qualified to speak on this subject, unless someone with five wants to come on here and talk
lol...you really dont believe that quantity supersedes quality do you ?



and yes, i am not familiar with your testimony so i assume you don't have a christian worldview. please correct me if i am wrong and tell me you have accepted Jesus Christ as your only means of salvation

i never asked you..i ask Neezer because she question what i believe so i ask her how she is raising her children to see where she stood...she didn't answer me though
i dont have to prove anything to you....just God....sorry to burst your bubble though.
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  #30  
Old 12-12-2011, 02:04 AM
rearnakedchoke
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Originally Posted by NateR View Post
It's not about the relationship between a parent and child being affected. It's about that child's relationship with GOD. If there is even a risk of negatively affecting that, then it's not worth it.

In Mark 9:42, Jesus says:
“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."

So, if you teach your children about Jesus Christ and Santa Claus on the same day every year, then eventually your children discover that you've been intentionally lying to them all along about Santa Claus, then how do you expect them to react to Jesus Christ? All you are doing is compromising your witness for Christ, which is more important than any temporary happiness they might get from believing in Santa Claus.

The primary purpose of parenting is not to provide a happy childhood, or a good education or produce productive members of society. Those are all good short term goals, but they are not the ultimate goal for which GOD initially designed parents. The purpose of parenting is to raise children who love GOD first and foremost. Everything else is secondary (even buying a house at the age of 21). So, with that in mind, how can any CHRISTIAN PARENT possibly defend the practice of lying to their kids about Santa Claus? Well, they can't, the practice is absolutely untenable from a Christian standpoint.

Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

Nothing in there saying that it's okay to tell a few little, "harmless" lies along the way.

Originally I asked those Christian parents, who allowed their children to believe in Santa, to present some Bible verses defending that decision... still waiting on those verses.
i am sure there are really good Christians out there that wrote to santa as kids ... imo, i don't think that will prevent them from reaching salvation
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